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Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
#1466383
07/11/13 09:03 AM
07/11/13 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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'Cause you know, THAT title's not gonna make anyone cringe...
Okay, my daily driver (68 Caddy) finally sucked its last rust flake into the steel line. The tank is NOT stock, has NO sending unit or even a hole for one, just a line out. Where you even FIND a tank like this i dont know. I didn't build it. Regardless, not important, this gas tank cannot be opened, and it cannot be fixed. Its FULL ov rust. I was just hoping it would last the summer... Guess not.
I need to drive this car tomorrow.
The car's got a good working electric pump, in between the tank and the steel line along the frame. Typical set-up. Pump works good. When the car stalls, there is no fuel getting to the rear filter. Only a SEVERE amount ov banging on the tank/line/filter will dislodge it and get it going again.
I'm going to run a 3/8" fuel line from the filter (which is good) to a tank (jerry can) in the interior (station wagon), through a drilled hole in the floor. Not unlike an interior fuel cell set-up. The fuel will have to run about 18" uphill to the tall gas can. Then about 12" back down to the bottom inside the jug. The jug will be right against the rear door, and tied securely obviously.
Aside from the usual 'this is hokey as hell, dont do it' comments, any reason why this wont work? Would it work in a Mad Max world?
This is my only working car now, and i need to get to work. I HAVE NO MONEY. I cant even come close to affording a tank, or a fuel cell right now. A friend has offered me a fuel cell, but it's 8 gallons. In this rig that would get me nowhere. I might still pick it up.
On the plus side... i now have a reason to replace that hokey tank, and get either a custom tank or cell, with a working fuel gauge. I have never had one in this vehicle, and at 11mpg this rig NEEDS one.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466384
07/11/13 09:46 AM
07/11/13 09:46 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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yes, it will work. I dont like the idea of the can inside the car. I ran a truck a few months with a plastic 5 gallon gas can in the fender whell area just behind the pass side headlight/core support. worked great and had people scratching their head when I opend the hood and pumped gas in the can.  I have straped a gas can on a roof of a mud truck to gravity feed the carb when the feul pump craped out one time. worked while it was running, but would flood the carb on shut down pushing past the needle/seat in the carb...i think. but it drove us 10 miles out of the sticks. the little up hill then a longer sharp drop in you can pick-up hose will cause it to syphine feed the pump so no problems there once it is primed. you do have a flame suite to wear with the can straped to the inside of (ov) rear door..right? if you think hot oil under pressure from a broken plastic oil guage tube is hot while driving.. fire is worse.  OH! it would be called hickabilly not hokey IMHO.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: dogdays]
#1466390
07/12/13 06:41 AM
07/12/13 06:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
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OP
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Splice a Schrader valve into the fuel line between your pump and the tank. Use compressed air to blow the rust flakes away from the in-tank strainer. My friend drove a Javelin like this for years.
I dont have compressed air. Besides, it would just jam again. I'm done 'attending' to it every single time i drive it. A fix is needed, even a hokey fix.
Quote:
My '64Dog's tank was rusty, I removed it and got the rust to come out the filler hole by sloshing about a gallon of gasoline around and then pouring it into a 5 gallon bucket, over and over. Got about a coffee can full of flakes. The tank worked for several years after before finally holing through.
R.
Yup, sounds good, but under it today, its going to be a major undertaking just removing that tank, and its not going to come quietly. 45 years ov rust will see to that. In fact, i was pretty shocked to see just how much cancer this car has... if it wasn't literally built like a WW2-era battleship, it'd be toast by now. Regardless, once that tank is out, its not going back in.
Further, upon close inspection, it actually DOES look like the original tank. Weird. Never heard ov a gas tank without a sender before, or a car without a working fuel gauge...???
Anyways, the project stalled today when i figured out an even better way to do it (NO hack involved), and i was stumped for the want ov just 15" ov steel line. Couldn't even find a spare dipstick tube to cut up and use. Back to the parts store tomorrow...
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1466391
07/12/13 06:42 AM
07/12/13 06:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I can't remember but you don't smoke right?
Sheldon
Only the tires... And the ol' Anti-Life Mobile does love a good cooker...
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1466392
07/12/13 06:45 AM
07/12/13 06:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you have access to a tank for a boat ?
good idea with a boat tank and line connection.
I have a 64 chebby stepside I work on with a boat tank in the bed like that.
Nope. Nothing that useful around here. My friend suggested that too.
Quote:
some angle iron peices, a welder, a gasser spun alum tank mounted out in front of the bumber would be kool on a road warrior caddy. 
Well... though this rig is right out ov the post-apocalyptic Aussie wasteland... i still wouldn't mount a tank up front... What if i need to ram someone...???
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: wingman]
#1466396
07/12/13 01:57 PM
07/12/13 01:57 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
you do have a flame suite to wear with the can straped to the inside of (ov) rear door..right?
I'm not usually one to be the grammar/spelling police, but you know it's spelled "of" right?
For pete's sake man, it's only two letters! 
yes,I have very poor grammar and spelling ability because I am ignorant(i think thats what it is called?), but yes, I do know it is spelled OF.
the OP is the only one on the board that does that OV thing IIRC, so as grammar police point out my bad grammar, I want to make sure I did not miss spell it for him.
my caps button is slack so it looks like i dont know that i am supposed to use the upper case I also. but I have bigger isssue than grammar to worry about that sort ov thing. 
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466398
07/12/13 03:13 PM
07/12/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
I dont have compressed air. Besides, it would just jam again. I'm done 'attending' to it every single time i drive it. A fix is needed, even a hokey fix.
buy a boat tank , it's a fix that will work well andc you can run it like that for a while without fear of a jerryjug falling over..
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: JohnRR]
#1466399
07/12/13 06:57 PM
07/12/13 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I dont have compressed air. Besides, it would just jam again. I'm done 'attending' to it every single time i drive it. A fix is needed, even a hokey fix.
buy a boat tank , it's a fix that will work well andc you can run it like that for a while without fear of a jerryjug falling over..
 You can pick them up jeap on craigslist I bet. Much safer then your jerry can idea.
In the Demolition derbys around here they are used alot in the cars. Those and or fuel cells.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1466400
07/12/13 07:49 PM
07/12/13 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Are you just going to swap in another tank from something else from PNP?
The amount ov space under there is vast. The stock tank is at least 16 gal, and i could easily double the size and have room to spare, probably triple the size once i change the exhaust, the floor in the rear ov these things is really high.
The plan is to find a stock tank and sender from something that fits the shape (area), or better yet, have a tank built to fit perfectly. A new tank and sender, plus aftermarket fuel gauge would be just swell. Pretty sure my gauge is also hooped at the dash too.
Quote:
And to anyone bothered by ov, explain to me who the heck decided the correct way to spell that word, because the "correct" way to spell it makes no sense whatsoever. I like people who deliberately challenge stupid convention.
Sheldon
Hah! You know... i never even thought ov it that way. If you look around, probably half the people here (well anywhere) spell stuff is it sounds... which, is pretty much what bad spelling is, isn't it? Not that its intentional...
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: JohnRR]
#1466401
07/12/13 07:53 PM
07/12/13 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
I dont have compressed air. Besides, it would just jam again. I'm done 'attending' to it every single time i drive it. A fix is needed, even a hokey fix.
buy a boat tank , it's a fix that will work well andc you can run it like that for a while without fear of a jerryjug falling over..
I'll look around for a free one somewhere. I'm not worried about the jerry falling/moving though, there is a factory cubby/hole in the middle floor, for holding a battery or something, the 5 gal jerry fits right in there so snug it wouldn't move in a rollover. Still not what i'd call safe... but at least it wont move.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466402
07/12/13 09:53 PM
07/12/13 09:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:
Hah! You know... i never even thought ov it that way. If you look around, probably half the people here (well anywhere) spell stuff is it sounds... which, is pretty much what bad spelling is, isn't it? Not that its intentional...
I did not have a problem with it as it is a non issue but it did remind me of how bad my grammer used to be (on here) several years ago 
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1466403
07/15/13 09:25 AM
07/15/13 09:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Well okay then. THAT didn't work.
Spent my last $30 on all the little things i needed to do this nicely... as my 'temporary' fixes do tend to end up permanent for the most part.
Mounted a 5 gal jerry sideways (upright) and secured it solid. Made a 3/8" steel fuel line with a sidecut end (so as not to bottom out), pushed to the bottom ov the tank through the vent hole, ran a 3/8" rubber line along and through the floor using a brass fitting/elbow so nothing would kink and so it would be as flush as possible, ran it all as directly, yet out ov the way as possible. The only thing i couldn't do was buy a new filter... literally didn't have the extra $4. The filter on there was still flowing well though. Really really nice, slick install if i do say so myself... for a mickey mouse job.
So BRAND NEW FUEL SYSTEM from 'tank' to steel (along frame) line. I mean antiseptic. Well, the working pump is used obviously.
Wouldn't start. So i poured some gas down the carb, vroom. Off we go. Drove it around all yesterday no issues at all, getting full throttle, no issues. Starts up today, seems a tad more hesitant to idle normally than usual (this car is VERY consistent), but it works fine. Get to work. Done with work hours later... [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] wont start.
I'll skip the play by play. No fuel is getting to the pump (thus none to the carb). Period. NO reason why this would happen. If there was too much line or too much elevation for the pump to handle, then it should have never run.
[Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] it. I'm done with this car. I'm sick ov thinking about whether i'll get home EVERY TIME i leave the driveway. I'm done messing with ghosts in the machine. As far as i'm concerned, this thing wont leave the yard again until its brand new from carb to (real) tank. A 6000lb rig is just too god damn big to push around if it stops working... even for me. Luckily a neighbor happened by at 1AM, and we bolted two chains together and towed it home with his Mazda. (which was kinda funny...).
Now... how to get to work. I have officially run out ov cars and money. Nothing in my collection is getting fixed for less than a grand.
Yay.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: magnum440d100]
#1466406
07/15/13 07:53 PM
07/15/13 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Is there a vent hole in the Jerry can? Only thing I can think ov is that there is no way for air to replace the gas in the can, making it harder for the pump to pull gas from the can. Try cracking open the cap to let air in. Kinda like you do when your radiator cracks, and you are just trying to make it home. You crack the cap open to release pressure 
Haha, Nice!
There was, but i plugged it with the fuel line. However, i did think ov this when trying to start it last night, i just left the big cap off. Still no start.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1466407
07/15/13 07:56 PM
07/15/13 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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OP
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Take the filter out from between the fuel pump and the jerry can. It can't go there especially during the hot weather. It will keep your pump from pumping, it goes after the fuel pump.
The pump SEEMS (can tell by sound, its an old Carter electric i think) to be working fine...??? But yeah, thats an idea... one i unfortunately cant try because i'm outta fuel line. Hell, i cant even splice it with another piece right now because i'm out ov hose clamps. My shop isn't a happy shop......
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466408
07/16/13 03:11 AM
07/16/13 03:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,944
woodcrest, CA
magnum440d100
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,944
woodcrest, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Is there a vent hole in the Jerry can? Only thing I can think ov is that there is no way for air to replace the gas in the can, making it harder for the pump to pull gas from the can. Try cracking open the cap to let air in. Kinda like you do when your radiator cracks, and you are just trying to make it home. You crack the cap open to release pressure
Haha, Nice!
There was, but i plugged it with the fuel line. However, i did think ov this when trying to start it last night, i just left the big cap off. Still no start.
Yeah, I had to toss that in there. Nothing wrong with the way it's spelt :P
Have you tried pressurizing the system? Take the fill cap off. Then with a rag around the fill hole, and compressor tip, pressurize the system. I've used a garden hose and lung power before, since I just read you have no air compressor.
Might just need help to get started again.
At any point in the system, is hose higher than the can?
Is the hose rated for fuel? May be collapsing?
The electric pump. Is it a pusher, or puller?
Last and not least. Tap on the fuel bowl or on the carb where it would be. Maybe the needle is sticking?
I'm out of ideas man. I hate when a quick fix doesn't help and ends up costing MORE than a right fix.
Keep us updated though. I'm interested in what it ends up being. 
Last edited by magnum440d100; 07/16/13 03:21 AM.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: magnum440d100]
#1466409
07/16/13 07:56 AM
07/16/13 07:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Yeah, I had to toss that in there. Nothing wrong with the way it's spelt :P
Have you tried pressurizing the system? Take the fill cap off. Then with a rag around the fill hole, and compressor tip, pressurize the system. I've used a garden hose and lung power before, since I just read you have no air compressor.
Might just need help to get started again.
Seeing as pushing this behemoth up a crested road and over a curb isn't going to happen without a crew, i'm just going to fire it up with a gasoline colostomy bag... basically a friend holding a small container ov fuel right off the unfiltered pump while i back it up the curb and park it forever.
Quote:
At any point in the system, is hose higher than the can?
Is the hose rated for fuel? May be collapsing?
Yup... the steel line enters through a hole drilled in the jerry can vent hole, though we're talking maybe 3-4" higher than the can. Ov course, being nearly out ov gas, thats another 12" ov elevation to suck... So thats 15" above the floor, which is a further 10" above the pump. Definitely a harder suck than the stock configuration.
Its brand new 3/8" fuel hose.
Quote:
The electric pump. Is it a pusher, or puller?
Well... its a basic (pretty sure) Carter electric, easily 20 years old. Its been sucking all this time no problems, so i assume thats what it is.
Quote:
Last and not least. Tap on the fuel bowl or on the carb where it would be. Maybe the needle is sticking?
Could very well be. This carb has needed a rebuild since the 80's. I bought it with a bog big enough to drive a cement truck through, and it never got rebuilt... never had it insured long enough to bother.
Quote:
I'm out of ideas man. I hate when a quick fix doesn't help and ends up costing MORE than a right fix.
Keep us updated though. I'm interested in what it ends up being.
Yeah... i would rather have spent that $30 on a bottle ov rum at this point... I'd get more mileage out ov it...
As for the update, i'll be sure to drag this thread back from the dead when i get to it and fix the fuel system some time in 2017. Right now i simply cant be assed to bother spending a grand on a car thats not even getting double-digit MPG...
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: 58pwrwgn]
#1466411
07/17/13 07:21 AM
07/17/13 07:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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OP
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Is this the first time you have run the tank that low. Maybe your pump can't lift the gas out of the tank from the lower level. Try filling it up.
Hah! Nope. In fact, i dont think its EVER had more than a 1/4 - 1/3 tank in its life (with me). Its usually well below the 1/4 tank point...
No matter. Tried a few different things to get it up the curb today... including literally hanging a small open unfiltered 'tank' 6 inches off the pump... nothing worked. Now there is just nothing getting to the carb, or more likely, through it. Tried smacking the thing around, nothing. Looks like we're pushing it. I'm guessing that after all these years the carb has finally just sh!t the bed and quit moving fuel. Both filters are working, so all the lines are working now. Its suddenly no wonder i couldn't fix this thing at work the few times it did fail to start... turns out i'm looking at several different issues... that ALL decided to slam me at once. THAT... at least... is positive news. At least i'll quit doubting my diagnostic abilities...
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466412
07/17/13 09:31 AM
07/17/13 09:31 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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is this a q-jet carb on that caddy? if so, check the inlet stone/filter to see if it is clear. 10 bux should rebuild that carb and with a good cleaning they are ez to work with. have you looked into a bicycle? it is as dependable as the rider is for getting to/from work. 
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1466413
07/18/13 12:10 AM
07/18/13 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
is this a q-jet carb on that caddy?
if so, check the inlet stone/filter to see if it is clear.
10 bux should rebuild that carb and with a good cleaning they are ez to work with.
have you looked into a bicycle? it is as dependable as the rider is for getting to/from work.
Yup... big ol' Q-jet. Last i checked the kits here were about $35, well beyond my current budget. That WILL get done though... its had a massive bog in the carb since i bought the car in the very early 90's.
I have a nice bike, i used to live on a bike. For commuting however... not so practical... seeing as it is the land ov rain and... well, rain. Plus i haul a 50lb bag me everywhere i go.
I need a new car... currently looking for a Fox-body 5.0L with a stick, a 97-up Avenger w 4cyl/5speed, maybe a 96-8 Mustang GT if i can find a cheap one, possibly an early 90's Daytona, or preferably... a 71 Pinto. Hahaha. Mine is too far gone to bother with.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1466415
07/18/13 09:40 AM
07/18/13 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
There was a fairly decent V8 Pinto here a few years ago for about $1k, it's been gone for awhile though.
Sheldon
Even though a well-done 5.0L/5-speed 71 Pinto would be pretty much the perfect commuter for me, i've not yet, in a decade ov looking come across anything even remotely close to that. V8 Pintos are almost always old-school 289/302/351 carbed, typical 70's build engines, NEVER 5-speeds and rarely even stick cars... every one i find at least is an auto. Most are later years, most are horribly done, or are are decently done but with all the stuff i DONT want... 351's, Ford 9", way tackied-out interiors, etc.
Find me a 71-only hatchback with an injected 91-up 5.0L (or better yet, an all-aluminum DOHC 4.6L mod) and a T-5 thats otherwise stock and i'll be on it like a fat kid on a Smartie...
No... i'm not at all picky when it comes to these things...
My current plan was to actually keep the 4-banger in it, and have a semi-fun lil car that gets 30mpg.
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1466416
07/18/13 10:58 AM
07/18/13 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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I am surprised there is a Qjet on there. I have an AFB I pulled off a 429 Caddie. '69 I think.
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
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Re: Super-hokey fuel fix... (in a pinch)
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#1466417
07/18/13 08:37 PM
07/18/13 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I am surprised there is a Qjet on there. I have an AFB I pulled off a 429 Caddie. '69 I think.
Everything GM was Q-jet... that i've ever seen anyways. Discounting the higher end Chevy HP stuff anyways. 429's were gone by 68, thats when the big boys came out to play... 472 in 68, 500 in 70. All Q-jets. BIG Q-jets...
Gawd... i couldn't imagine what MPG this behemoth would get with a square-bore carb...
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