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My Take the time to work out the bump steer. You will be happy you did.

Find a old Direct connection chassis manual there is alot of good info in there with examples.

I suggest you buy a caster/camber gauge and do it yourself on your garage floor and are not tying up someones rack that is in a hurry.

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I am going to try and do it myself just as I did the other times. I do it at my buddy's shop on saturdays when he is not open that way I am doing just that, not tying up his wrack.

I am not too fond of heating up and bending steering knuckles though as outlined in the manual. I spoke with Chuck Lofgren who makes a kit to relocate the tie rod ABOVE the knuckle to reduce toe in and bumpsteer, but getting under my car it looks like tie rods above the knuckle will give me some serious header clearance issues

So now im not sure where to go with this...And im worried that when I add more positive caster im going to increase even more the toe in effect if I am understanding the suspensions travel correctly.

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By the looks of it your outer tie rods are too high. If you can add more positive caster it will help. My bet is there isn't any more adjustment left. When I get back from vacation I'll take some pics of my fix. Mine had .750" toe-in through 5.50" of travel. Now it has less than I can measure. It didn't help my ET at all. I still think your converter is the culprit.
Doug

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So your saying that my outers need to be closer to the ground? The way I have understood this is that in order to reduce bumpsteer you want the tie rods to be as level or straight as possible. So increasing positive castor will drop the outer tie rod end down, which seems like it would only create worse issues with bumpsteer, not better.

If you could post pics about what you mean that would be great. As I said in the post above, my headers are pretty close to the tie rods if I wanted to relocate them above the knuckle.

Im almost wondering if I should just set the toe at 1.5"-2" of front end rise with me in the car, and not worry about what it is at rest or any other level or rise/rest?

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mshred here is a chart below some say to go by... I'm still sorting my car out also. Like you I had many issues going on.. as far as suspension I worked a lot of overtime and just wanted new stuff is all.. modified stock K with dillinger tubular goods and going coil overs with afco DA's. uppers have 5* positive caster built in also and my lowers have adjustability also(can see spacers in pic). I can adjust bumpsteer also. peopel say the factory stuff is good but I was tired of messing with old greasy stuff... front tires are cheap and I want the ET :P

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Don't overthink it. Set the toe to where you want it at the approx. height and weight it goes down the track. I set mine with the front end up around 3", I also have around 6 degrees of positive caster with the stock stuff.

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So as long as the toe is good at the ride height you are at going down track, you should be fine?

With that much positive caster, you didn't find it hard to achieve the toe setting you needed? Do you know what your toe is like at rest with it set up for 3" of front end travel?

My car is a street car, so I don't want to have issues with toe while cruising around...killing tires wont be fun

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It will be a ton better than you have it now for sure. I bent the lower control arm and the balljoint some to get mine to stay as straight as possible, but that was mostly because I was chasing a caster number. When it lifts through the suspension range I have less than a half degree camber change and very minimal toe. It took a full day on the alignment rack.
You are chasing an issue, and if it were me, I would set the toe a couple inches up to ensure that's not taking any mph away. Take the time when you get the rest figured out to go through it properly. Oh and my on that issue is you have a lot more motor than me, get that converter out of the car, it is laying on it way too much.

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Here ia where my tierods ended up after setting the bumpsteer my self,,took it to a local chassis builder and he made the final adjustments and the spacer's ended up just a hair shorter and he also added a safty washer under the tierod end in case of failure and told me that I actually had it pretty close, but not close enough for his standard's.

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You guys have him chasing the wrong rabbit, bump steer is not the reason why the car leaves like a rock.Make the car 60ft first then fix the other issues.

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You guys have him chasing the wrong rabbit, bump steer is not the reason why the car leaves like a rock.Make the car 60ft first then fix the other issues.

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Yep......

I still say the convertor isn't right, and no way I would run a heavy N/A small lock like this one is without the cam advanced 4 degrees( or maybe more) from the straight up way it's installed. I definately think it's suspect, and or the cam is flat wrong.
I remember a few years back running a 107 LSA cam installed at 104 in my car. A certain cam " guru" who used to post on here told me a 112 LSA cam would pick my car up. Long story short it never got closer than 12 hundreds to my original cam, and get doggy and " numb" coming out of the gate
Both the convertor and cam/ cam install point are off in the OP's car, and the video shows it.

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You guys have him chasing the wrong rabbit, bump steer is not the reason why the car leaves like a rock.Make the car 60ft first then fix the other issues.

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Yep......

I still say the convertor isn't right, and no way I would run a heavy N/A small lock like this one is without the cam advanced 4 degrees( or maybe more) from the straight up way it's installed. I definately think it's suspect, and or the cam is flat wrong.
I remember a few years back running a 107 LSA cam installed at 104 in my car. A certain cam " guru" who used to post on here told me a 112 LSA cam would pick my car up. Long story short it never got closer than 12 hundreds to my original cam, and get doggy and " numb" coming out of the gate
Both the convertor and cam/ cam install point are off in the OP's car, and the video shows it.

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You guys have him chasing the wrong rabbit, bump steer is not the reason why the car leaves like a rock.Make the car 60ft first then fix the other issues.

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Yep......

I still say the convertor isn't right, and no way I would run a heavy N/A small lock like this one is without the cam advanced 4 degrees( or maybe more) from the straight up way it's installed. I definately think it's suspect, and or the cam is flat wrong.
I remember a few years back running a 107 LSA cam installed at 104 in my car. A certain cam " guru" who used to post on here told me a 112 LSA cam would pick my car up. Long story short it never got closer than 12 hundreds to my original cam, and get doggy and " numb" coming out of the gate
Both the convertor and cam/ cam install point are off in the OP's car, and the video shows it.

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The first thing I'd do is advance the cam at least 4*. It would be interesting to see a log of the rpms during a run.

My car is a little lighter 3260# and my heads flow just a little more, 293 on Curtis Boggs bench. Biggs 950hp, Victor intake 10.9-1 compression, 4.10 Dana on 28" tires, 727 with a $450 9.5" 5000 converter. The cam I have is a flat solid 260/264, .628/.633 in at 102*, it's ground on 106*. In great air on radials it's been 1.38 several times and low 1.40s in decent air and track conditions. In the heat on slicks 1.47 with a lean pop at the leave. In in good air it's been 104 in the 1/8 and 100 in the heat.

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I dont think adv the cam will gain about 4 mph witch i think its whats missing.
All it will do is make the power curve lower.

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You wont know until you get everything about the combination correct, or way closer to correct. Convertor and cam are just two of the pieces to this puzzle which definitely need immediate attention.

I agree, the basic combination has a chance to go 121-122. The cam being 251@ 50 is REALLY small for a 4 inch stroker motor. I ran one that was 260@ 50 on an eddie 416 with only a little more compression and even that weezed at the big end. 251@ 50 is more suited to a stock stroke motor with these heads and this compression.4 inch motors chew up a ton of duration. Hensley initially specced a 248/258 crane flat tappet on my first 416 with eddies they screwed together for me, and I couldn't get it to run any better than 114 mph. After cam( to the 260/266) and convertor swaps and a few more tweaks I got it to run almost 124mph ultimately with the same gear, heads, tranny, intake, etc.
I think a correct convertor will help the car 60 foot better and a correctly specced cam will help in both 60 foot and mph...right now the combo doesn't have either going for it and thus runs where it currently does, not terrible, but certainly not where those heads should be able to push it to.

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I dont think adv the cam will gain about 4 mph witch i think its whats missing.
All it will do is make the power curve lower.

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You wont know until you get everything about the combination correct, or way closer to correct. Convertor and cam are just two of the pieces to this puzzle which definitely need immediate attention.

I agree, the basic combination has a chance to go 121-122. The cam being 251@ 50 is REALLY small for a 4 inch stroker motor. I ran one that was 260@ 50 on an eddie 416 with only a little more compression and even that weezed at the big end. 251@ 50 is more suited to a stock stroke motor with these heads and this compression.4 inch motors chew up a ton of duration. Hensley initially specced a 248/258 crane flat tappet on my first 416 with eddies they screwed together for me, and I couldn't get it to run any better than 114 mph. After cam( to the 260/266) and convertor swaps and a few more tweaks I got it to run almost 124mph ultimately with the same gear, heads, tranny, intake, etc.
I think a correct convertor will help the car 60 foot better and a correctly specced cam will help in both 60 foot and mph...right now the combo doesn't have either going for it and thus runs where it currently does, not terrible, but certainly not where those heads should be able to push it to.

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I dont think adv the cam will gain about 4 mph witch i think its whats missing.
All it will do is make the power curve lower.

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You wont know until you get everything about the combination correct, or way closer to correct. Convertor and cam are just two of the pieces to this puzzle which definitely need immediate attention.

I agree, the basic combination has a chance to go 121-122. The cam being 251@ 50 is REALLY small for a 4 inch stroker motor. I ran one that was 260@ 50 on an eddie 416 with only a little more compression and even that weezed at the big end. 251@ 50 is more suited to a stock stroke motor with these heads and this compression.4 inch motors chew up a ton of duration. Hensley initially specced a 248/258 crane flat tappet on my first 416 with eddies they screwed together for me, and I couldn't get it to run any better than 114 mph. After cam( to the 260/266) and convertor swaps and a few more tweaks I got it to run almost 124mph ultimately with the same gear, heads, tranny, intake, etc.
I think a correct convertor will help the car 60 foot better and a correctly specced cam will help in both 60 foot and mph...right now the combo doesn't have either going for it and thus runs where it currently does, not terrible, but certainly not where those heads should be able to push it to.

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You think it needs 260@ .050 with 10:1? In a heavy car?
The car leaves soft already, even if he advanced the cam it won't cure the soft leave OR mph...

He'll get it worked out...I don't have much problem spec'ing cams and this one is no different.
I have several other 408's with this cam running 121-122mph with same heads and compression. It ain't the camshaft or cam timing.
Brian

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I dont think adv the cam will gain about 4 mph witch i think its whats missing.
All it will do is make the power curve lower.

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You wont know until you get everything about the combination correct, or way closer to correct. Convertor and cam are just two of the pieces to this puzzle which definitely need immediate attention.

I agree, the basic combination has a chance to go 121-122. The cam being 251@ 50 is REALLY small for a 4 inch stroker motor. I ran one that was 260@ 50 on an eddie 416 with only a little more compression and even that weezed at the big end. 251@ 50 is more suited to a stock stroke motor with these heads and this compression.4 inch motors chew up a ton of duration. Hensley initially specced a 248/258 crane flat tappet on my first 416 with eddies they screwed together for me, and I couldn't get it to run any better than 114 mph. After cam( to the 260/266) and convertor swaps and a few more tweaks I got it to run almost 124mph ultimately with the same gear, heads, tranny, intake, etc.
I think a correct convertor will help the car 60 foot better and a correctly specced cam will help in both 60 foot and mph...right now the combo doesn't have either going for it and thus runs where it currently does, not terrible, but certainly not where those heads should be able to push it to.

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You think it needs 260@ .050 with 10:1? In a heavy car?
The car leaves soft already, even if he advanced the cam it won't cure the soft leave OR mph...

He'll get it worked out...I don't have much problem spec'ing cams and this one is no different.
I have several other 408's with this cam running 121-122mph with same heads and compression. It ain't the camshaft or cam timing.
Brian

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