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Re: Carb. Problem [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1462381
07/05/13 01:38 PM
07/05/13 01:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 225
in the middle
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dodger mope Offline
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here is a way I test holley power valves systems used on blow though carburetors when your not sure if their opening.take a power valve with the metal shield,crush the metal into fiber until the valve is completely held open.when you install this valve their will be no doubt if the power system is adding all the fuel that it can. at part throtle it will be rich.

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1462382
07/05/13 01:40 PM
07/05/13 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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OK,good to know

After going out and laying under there for a bit the 3" collector actually "looks" small in relation to the primary merge.
So time for some more experimenting ,,,if it ever stops raining


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462383
07/05/13 01:52 PM
07/05/13 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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I was digging around for exhaust/math figures and could`nt find anything that figures in boost or supercharger CI.
In my head I figure 440 + 177 =617cu.in. engine at max efficeincy?
I know its not 100% accurate,probably more like a 550ish cu. engine air-flow wise


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462384
07/05/13 02:11 PM
07/05/13 02:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
My 464 C.I. pump gas motor in my Duster ended up with a three inch exhaust system on it, 2 inch Hooker fender wells with 3.5 inch collectors fed straight into a three inch pipe under the rocker panels back to behind the rear end housing to a set of Magnaflow 14x7x3 inch inlet on the side to 3 inch straight out in the center mounted at the rear bumper That set up was right at .04 ET (7.01 then 6.97) and .2 MPH slower on the car versus taken off in the 1/8 mile Same deal on the motor, N/A On a blown motor bigger is way better than smaller on the whole exhaust system BTW, I wanted a 3.5 inch system on my Duster but the local muffler shop forgot to buy the correct bends and mufflers when I had them do the car My next car aill have a four inch system on it BTW, check Summit and Jegs for a inexpensive big universal exhaust system for your car


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: dodger mope] #1462385
07/05/13 07:09 PM
07/05/13 07:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,902
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
Quote:

here is a way I test holley power valves systems used on blow though carburetors when your not sure if their opening.take a power valve with the metal shield,crush the metal into fiber until the valve is completely held open.when you install this valve their will be no doubt if the power system is adding all the fuel that it can. at part throtle it will be rich.


pretty much the same deal if you -remove- it and jet the pv inlets! then you can change the jets in the pv circuit..

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: ek3] #1462386
07/07/13 12:08 AM
07/07/13 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Well had hoped to go to the track this weekend in one of my cars,but all the tracks are closed from all the rain.

So un-corked the exhaust and took it for a drive.
AFR @ WOT with the exhaust hooked up was 11.4 after jetting up the primaries 10-jets. Power valve is yet to be tested with and without.
No way to measure it open.
It does seem to rev more readily at least 1/2 into 3rd. Acted like it wanted a 52/300 shift instead of 5,000 max.
What little I ran it in 3rd {not enough room]
It had that surge again. I would have thought 11.4 is rich enough.
So anyway went Summit and bought stuff to put some 3" under it and see what happens.
It does run quite a bit cooler un-corked.
]
]


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462387
07/07/13 12:15 AM
07/07/13 12:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

Well had hoped to go to the track this weekend in one of my cars,but all the tracks are closed from all the rain.

So un-corked the exhaust and took it for a drive.
AFR @ WOT with the exhaust hooked up was 11.4 after jetting up the primaries 10-jets. Power valve is yet to be tested with and without.
No way to measure it open.
It does seem to rev more readily at least 1/2 into 3rd. Acted like it wanted a 52/300 shift instead of 5,000 max.
What little I ran it in 3rd {not enough room]
It had that surge again. I would have thought 11.4 is rich enough.
So anyway went Summit and bought stuff to put some 3" under it and see what happens.
It does run quite a bit cooler un-corked.
]
]




Its probably cooler with the added fuel.. also you
only added fuel to the primaries... add a pile to
the secondaries and you might get rid of the surge...
you will probably need to jet down the primaries

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1462388
07/07/13 03:07 AM
07/07/13 03:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Yes more jet is hopefully the cure for the surge.

In a couple days when I get it all back together with O2 back in I hope to get a better view of what it wants.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462389
07/08/13 06:54 PM
07/08/13 06:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,902
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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waiting on time slips and new afr's....

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: ek3] #1462390
07/09/13 04:03 AM
07/09/13 04:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Quote:

waiting on time slips and new afr's....





Well with the new 3"head pipes and "X" pipe,it idles like it has more cam,choppier I like it
AFR is still 11.4 certainly no worse at speed.
At 3am. I ran it thru all the gears and once it gets to about 4,800 in 3rd it just kinda stays there.
AFR stays in the 11.4--.8 range. Held on for about a 1/4 mile in 3rd hoping it would accelerate or throw a rod.Did neither LOL

Time slips will have to wait. Only get a few days off that line-up with track days.
There are only a few parts left that haven`t been changed.
So mathematically I`m closer


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462391
07/09/13 10:12 PM
07/09/13 10:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,902
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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where is the cam installed at. advanced, retarded , straight up ?

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: ek3] #1462392
07/09/13 11:47 PM
07/09/13 11:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 628
Denison,Ia.
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Cuda367 Offline
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Denison,Ia.
You need to step back a minute. What really allows an engine to rpm. The amount of air it can get and control of valve train. I remember when the 335hp ford 390 came out. yea i'm old. Good, ecept done about 4400. We changed the valve springs and turn a pooch into a runner. I am not saying it is your springs just saying valve train contols Rpm. Next just the amount of air. I can be rich to the piont of looking like a deisel to lean enough to put aluminum on the plugs and the engine will rpm as long as it can still get air. Or you can kept beating on the carb with the results you already have.

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: ek3] #1462393
07/10/13 04:10 PM
07/10/13 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Quote:

where is the cam installed at. advanced, retarded , straight up ?




Cam is in @106which is staightup


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462394
07/10/13 04:21 PM
07/10/13 04:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

where is the cam installed at. advanced, retarded , straight up ?




Cam is in @106which is staightup




Thats a bad choice of cams with a supercharged engine..
should be closer to 114 LSA

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: Cuda367] #1462395
07/10/13 04:31 PM
07/10/13 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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N.E. Ohio
Quote:

You need to step back a minute. What really allows an engine to rpm. The amount of air it can get and control of valve train. I remember when the 335hp ford 390 came out. yea i'm old. Good, ecept done about 4400. We changed the valve springs and turn a pooch into a runner. I am not saying it is your springs just saying valve train contols Rpm. Next just the amount of air. I can be rich to the piont of looking like a deisel to lean enough to put aluminum on the plugs and the engine will rpm as long as it can still get air. Or you can kept beating on the carb with the results you already have.




All valid points. But I have been through the valvetrain,an found now problems or improvements.

However I thnk I may have finally found THE problem: IGNITION.

When I got the car it had an Orange ECU,ran fine.
After the blower install and chasing more speed I installed a Chrome ECU and ballast from the racecar. No noticable change.
So Sunday I`m removing the exhuast and it is LOADED with soot.
How can an exhaust on a motor that is too small and running too lean be sooty?

Put on a spare MSD 6AL and WOW what a difference!!!!!
Off idle stumble is gone and throttle responce is amazing.Idle AFR went from 12.3 to 13.1 without touching the carb.
If it ever stops raining I`ll get to drive it.


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1462396
07/10/13 04:45 PM
07/10/13 04:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

where is the cam installed at. advanced, retarded , straight up ?




Cam is in @106which is staightup




Thats a bad choice of cams with a supercharged engine..
should be closer to 114 LSA





I agree

Had 2-114 c/l cams in it already. Guys running these little blowers said you need "little or no overlap".Called CompCams explained issues and what I wanted. Told me this what I recommend for a "low-boost" application.
So I took his advise.
In all fairness I don`t beleive its the cams fault. The "right" ones ran the same


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462397
07/10/13 06:00 PM
07/10/13 06:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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If you do have a ignition issue then that will explain
a lot... you need a strong spark with high cyl pressures

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1462398
07/10/13 06:14 PM
07/10/13 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Might get to go the track Friday


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Carb. Problem [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1462399
07/10/13 11:18 PM
07/10/13 11:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,902
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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glad to hear you have a solid lead on it... sounds like you may be headed the right way! thought the basics were covered... just goes to show fundamentals first!!

Re: Carb. Problem [Re: ek3] #1462400
07/11/13 04:05 AM
07/11/13 04:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,849
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Quote:

glad to hear you have a solid lead on it... sounds like you may be headed the right way! thought the basics were covered... just goes to show fundamentals first!!




Yeah,who knew it would take 3-ignition boxes.
There was no clue :easy starting ,good fuel economy,smooth cruise,plugs clean,etc...

The Chrome box is off the racecar and it ran fine too. No change in performance with MSD on it.

Have`nt driven it yet so I`m not betting the far


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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