Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: ]
#1455089
06/19/13 08:56 PM
06/19/13 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491 Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't understand the question here???...
Not to tough to figure out.....
Edelbrock heads=$1750, plus need to be checked for guide clearance and valve job
Stealth heads=$1000, plus need to be checked for guide clearance, valve job, and pushrod clearance
CNC Stealth=$2000, Ready to go, checked by Modern Cyl. Head
CNC Stealth is a no-brainer
What I meant by "I don't understand the question" is that they are the same head (performance wise) when prepped the same...so it boils down to if you want to support an American made product or a Chinese knock-off....sure, it's "a no brainer" if you don't care about jobs in this country...
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: Dodgem]
#1455091
06/19/13 09:15 PM
06/19/13 09:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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I agree with this information and have found very similar results...Good straight info...
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1455092
06/19/13 09:29 PM
06/19/13 09:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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a buddy of mine ran the edelbrocks OOTB on a 448 inch 440 with a .590 mp cam and they worked great.
On the stealths i hand ported did the bowels (I'd say a big gain there) port match smoothed and worked the pushrod pinch about .100 but not overboard after I was done they flowed 285 on the same bench the guy that owns the machine shop got 257 with an out of the box stealth he said a nice gain with the work I did.
Knowing the clearance issue with 3/8 pushrods on the stealth I clearanced quite a bit and when buddy assembled the motor had to do one or two spots some more. It's almost like the head casting is inconsistant.
Still better than iron heads and way way nicer to port! Porting iron sucks!!!
Last edited by Dodgem; 06/19/13 09:33 PM.
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1455096
06/19/13 11:50 PM
06/19/13 11:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Yea, but the Duster has a B1 sticker on the scoop...!!!!!
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1455098
06/20/13 02:16 AM
06/20/13 02:16 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't understand the question here???...
Not to tough to figure out.....
Edelbrock heads=$1750, plus need to be checked for guide clearance and valve job
Stealth heads=$1000, plus need to be checked for guide clearance, valve job, and pushrod clearance
CNC Stealth=$2000, Ready to go, checked by Modern Cyl. Head
CNC Stealth is a no-brainer
What I meant by "I don't understand the question" is that they are the same head (performance wise) when prepped the same...so it boils down to if you want to support an American made product or a Chinese knock-off....sure, it's "a no brainer" if you're the stereotypical Joe Dirt Mopar guy that's spending money on a motor he really can't afford when he should be buying clothes for his kids AND doesn't care about jobs in this country...
And the E-brock is pretty much a Mopar knock-off right down to the stone age combustion chamber albeit with better flowing ports.
What I don't understand is why Edelbrock made them with those chambers when they already have patterns for fast burn chambers proven to make a bunch more power with 10 deg less timing on other flavors of engines. Never mind less chance of detonation and cap walk.
Kevin
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: Twostick]
#1455099
06/20/13 10:07 AM
06/20/13 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
And the E-brock is pretty much a Mopar knock-off right down to the stone age combustion chamber albeit with better flowing ports.
Yes... and no. Chamber design definitely "old school", other than adding an angled plug. However, looking at cross-sections of an OEM head and an E head show some pretty clear differences in port design. They're straighter and actually have reasonable short turns that the OEM stuff overlooked.
Quote:
What I don't understand is why Edelbrock made them with those chambers when they already have patterns for fast burn chambers proven to make a bunch more power with 10 deg less timing on other flavors of engines.
The same thought crossed my mind, too. And when Edelbrock started previewing a Performer RPM Xtreme that looked to incorporate a Victor-style chamber w/ the current Performer RPM architecture, I thought that was a move in the right direction.
Then, probably because of the economy taking a big hit, the Performer RPM Xtreme mysteriously disappeared from all Edelbrock web sites and literature, as if it never existed in the first place...
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: BradH]
#1455100
06/20/13 10:10 AM
06/20/13 10:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106 Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
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what, really? I thought they used a modern combustion chamber design?? This is big shocker to me, as I was counting on that to help me pass emissions in my state (yes, my 78 is subject to the sniffer test, HC and CO, but not NOx) now I don't know what I am going to do... are there any other heads out there? Edit: just took a look at the Victor heads, great looking chamber design.. but I wonder if they are too much intake port for a street engine?
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: VincentVega]
#1455101
06/20/13 01:10 PM
06/20/13 01:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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There's no queation that the Edelbrock head combustion chamber is a copy of the 915 chamber, that's a 1967. Are the ports close? I don't know, but Steve Dulcich found that the 915 head had good swirl. That, added to the ability to build squish makes the 915 pretty desirable.
IMHO the 1968 chamber was a step in the wrong direction. I believe one of the problems was the MOPAR engineer's acceptance of low precision in the manufacturing process. Even though they had the area in place, the top of the piston was too far away from the head squish area. So, there was a large amount of cool, unburned hydrocarbons that never got taken care of. Remember that the squish area needs to be 0.040" or less, but the OEM design left at least 0.080" on most of the big blocks. The open chamber killed their "problem" which was caused by leaving the piston top too far down at TDC.
If you make sure to get the piston and the head squish area to be within 0.040" of each other, though, I think emissions will be better and depend more on camshaft and carb setup.
it is too bad that Edelbrock didn't put a better chamber in those heads, as was said before they had several examples of better chambers in production! Perhaps they were concerned about high compression dome fitment. Using the 915 chamber made sure that high compression domed pistons would fit.
R.
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: VincentVega]
#1455103
06/20/13 02:15 PM
06/20/13 02:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Wonder if the new E-Street 75cc chamber heads add efficiency to the chamber? Think I also read the new Indy EZ has a "new style" chamber. My build is gonna be a 91 octane deal and a good chamber would be a deciding factor. I dont get to excited when I see a head with an old style open chamber either.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1455104
06/20/13 02:21 PM
06/20/13 02:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106 Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
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I looked at those too, but it said something about not compatible with roller cams, so that was a definitely red light for me
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads
[Re: dogdays]
#1455105
06/20/13 09:03 PM
06/20/13 09:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Quote:
There's no queation that the Edelbrock head combustion chamber is a copy of the 915 chamber, that's a 1967. Are the ports close? I don't know, but Steve Dulcich found that the 915 head had good swirl. That, added to the ability to build squish makes the 915 pretty desirable.
IMHO the 1968 chamber was a step in the wrong direction. I believe one of the problems was the MOPAR engineer's acceptance of low precision in the manufacturing process. Even though they had the area in place, the top of the piston was too far away from the head squish area. So, there was a large amount of cool, unburned hydrocarbons that never got taken care of. Remember that the squish area needs to be 0.040" or less, but the OEM design left at least 0.080" on most of the big blocks. The open chamber killed their "problem" which was caused by leaving the piston top too far down at TDC.
If you make sure to get the piston and the head squish area to be within 0.040" of each other, though, I think emissions will be better and depend more on camshaft and carb setup.
it is too bad that Edelbrock didn't put a better chamber in those heads, as was said before they had several examples of better chambers in production! Perhaps they were concerned about high compression dome fitment. Using the 915 chamber made sure that high compression domed pistons would fit.
R.
I bet you will find .080 was on the highest of compression 440. By 1973 it was more like .170 . Yes, one hundred seventy lol. And if you do the math, the true compression of a smog 440 is 7.7-7.8 to 1.
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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads *DELETED*
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1455106
06/20/13 09:54 PM
06/20/13 09:54 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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