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Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: JohnRR] #1455087
06/19/13 06:38 PM
06/19/13 06:38 PM
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Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Where did the Stealth head crack and is it not repairable?






Hope I don't get banned for this ....



Holy crap! What's the story on that head?




I don't remember but when I saw it I right clicked SAVE ... the person that posted it up had more than one that was broken like that. I doubt they were hydro locked, this was a known issue with the early stealths, I hope for the sword swallowers sake that they don't have that issue anymore.

Dom, there is a huge difference between stuff made in Japan and the stuff made in China , Japanese stuff was on par with current china back in the 70's , much better today .


Ya, my ADD was on kill when I posted that and I forgot that Japan in many ways has it together however China and Taiwan................


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Thumperdart] #1455088
06/19/13 07:07 PM
06/19/13 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
H
hudsonhornet7x Offline
pro stock
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pro stock
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Joined: Jan 2012
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USA
Competition wedge you have a pm

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: ] #1455089
06/19/13 08:56 PM
06/19/13 08:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
pro stock
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Quote:

Quote:

I don't understand the question here???...





Not to tough to figure out.....

Edelbrock heads=$1750, plus need to be checked for guide clearance and valve job

Stealth heads=$1000, plus need to be checked for guide clearance, valve job, and pushrod clearance

CNC Stealth=$2000, Ready to go, checked by Modern Cyl. Head

CNC Stealth is a no-brainer




What I meant by "I don't understand the question" is that they are the same head (performance wise) when prepped the same...so it boils down to if you want to support an American made product or a Chinese knock-off....sure, it's "a no brainer" if you don't care about jobs in this country...


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: viperblue72] #1455090
06/19/13 09:10 PM
06/19/13 09:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Quote:

I agree that Edelbrock would be a better choice. They also flow better ootb than a stealth. I think the edelbrock ootb will flow about 285 where as the stealth flow 265 iirc. Have you considered the indy ez?





Go edelbrock they will produce 40 more HP OOTB better than Stealth. I have hand ported both and the edelbrocks are much nicer fit and finish on and off the motor. Lets say the stealths are well chinessee. seats hang down into combustion chamber or are not flushed with it better than a 45 year old iron head but bot near as nice as an edelbrock!

The confusion comes when CNC ported Stealths are close to the Edelbrocks (within 10 CFM) but OOTB many get the 265/267 number for the Steaths and 285/287 for the OOTB Edelbrocks. My local guy got 257 for the stealth and 285 for eddies on his flow bench. A little hand porting on either can go a long way.




Last edited by Dodgem; 06/19/13 09:11 PM.
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Dodgem] #1455091
06/19/13 09:15 PM
06/19/13 09:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
master
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Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
I agree with this information and have found very similar results...Good straight info...


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1455092
06/19/13 09:29 PM
06/19/13 09:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Ontario, Canada
a buddy of mine ran the edelbrocks OOTB on a 448 inch 440 with a .590 mp cam and they worked great.

On the stealths i hand ported did the bowels (I'd say a big gain there) port match smoothed and worked the pushrod pinch about .100 but not overboard after I was done they flowed 285 on the same bench the guy that owns the machine shop got 257 with an out of the box stealth he said a nice gain with the work I did.

Knowing the clearance issue with 3/8 pushrods on the stealth I clearanced quite a bit and when buddy assembled the motor had to do one or two spots some more. It's almost like the head casting is inconsistant.

Still better than iron heads and way way nicer to port! Porting iron sucks!!!

Last edited by Dodgem; 06/19/13 09:33 PM.
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Dodgem] #1455093
06/19/13 09:51 PM
06/19/13 09:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline
master
VernMotor  Offline
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Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
I have the mopar/eddy heads been 4 years now. Very happy with them,

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: pittsburghracer] #1455094
06/19/13 11:11 PM
06/19/13 11:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,618
long island NY
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Ari440 Offline
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long island NY
Quote:

Quote:

on a side note about rpm heads, does anyone know how fast these heads could push a b-body?

Also, if the heads were fully ported what is the ideal cubic inch for these heads? In other words what works well, and what is too big?




Not a B body but a Friends duster has gone 8.80's-8.90's with Edelbrock heads, solid lifter cam, and a tunnle-ram. App 500 ci.









what dos this car weigth

what carbs on the tunnelram

what solid cam



very nice combo


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Ari440] #1455095
06/19/13 11:40 PM
06/19/13 11:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 20,173
PA.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

on a side note about rpm heads, does anyone know how fast these heads could push a b-body?

Also, if the heads were fully ported what is the ideal cubic inch for these heads? In other words what works well, and what is too big?




Not a B body but a Friends duster has gone 8.80's-8.90's with Edelbrock heads, solid lifter cam, and a tunnle-ram. App 500 ci.









what dos this car weigth

what carbs on the tunnelram

what solid cam



very nice combo




I won't post a weight or cam specs because I'm not sure. Its a Indy tunnel ram with (2) 750's. Now for the good part. He ported the heads himself (first attempt) under the guidance of Tom Hemphile. Not bad for a 23-24 year old. His Fathers 69 charger has gone 8.60's with B1-BS heads and an old weiand tunnel ram.



1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: pittsburghracer] #1455096
06/19/13 11:50 PM
06/19/13 11:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
master
CompWedgeEngines  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
Yea, but the Duster has a B1 sticker on the scoop...!!!!!


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1455097
06/20/13 12:09 AM
06/20/13 12:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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PA.
Quote:

Yea, but the Duster has a B1 sticker on the scoop...!!!!!




Hey Todd SHHHHHHH. That's worth 50hp. For each carburetor.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Big Squeeze] #1455098
06/20/13 02:16 AM
06/20/13 02:16 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't understand the question here???...





Not to tough to figure out.....

Edelbrock heads=$1750, plus need to be checked for guide clearance and valve job

Stealth heads=$1000, plus need to be checked for guide clearance, valve job, and pushrod clearance

CNC Stealth=$2000, Ready to go, checked by Modern Cyl. Head

CNC Stealth is a no-brainer




What I meant by "I don't understand the question" is that they are the same head (performance wise) when prepped the same...so it boils down to if you want to support an American made product or a Chinese knock-off....sure, it's "a no brainer" if you're the stereotypical Joe Dirt Mopar guy that's spending money on a motor he really can't afford when he should be buying clothes for his kids AND doesn't care about jobs in this country...




And the E-brock is pretty much a Mopar knock-off right down to the stone age combustion chamber albeit with better flowing ports.

What I don't understand is why Edelbrock made them with those chambers when they already have patterns for fast burn chambers proven to make a bunch more power with 10 deg less timing on other flavors of engines. Never mind less chance of detonation and cap walk.

Kevin

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: Twostick] #1455099
06/20/13 10:07 AM
06/20/13 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quote:

And the E-brock is pretty much a Mopar knock-off right down to the stone age combustion chamber albeit with better flowing ports.



Yes... and no. Chamber design definitely "old school", other than adding an angled plug. However, looking at cross-sections of an OEM head and an E head show some pretty clear differences in port design. They're straighter and actually have reasonable short turns that the OEM stuff overlooked.

Quote:

What I don't understand is why Edelbrock made them with those chambers when they already have patterns for fast burn chambers proven to make a bunch more power with 10 deg less timing on other flavors of engines.



The same thought crossed my mind, too. And when Edelbrock started previewing a Performer RPM Xtreme that looked to incorporate a Victor-style chamber w/ the current Performer RPM architecture, I thought that was a move in the right direction.

Then, probably because of the economy taking a big hit, the Performer RPM Xtreme mysteriously disappeared from all Edelbrock web sites and literature, as if it never existed in the first place...

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: BradH] #1455100
06/20/13 10:10 AM
06/20/13 10:10 AM
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Northeast
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VincentVega Offline
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Northeast
what, really? I thought they used a modern combustion chamber design??

This is big shocker to me, as I was counting on that to help me pass emissions in my state (yes, my 78 is subject to the sniffer test, HC and CO, but not NOx)



now I don't know what I am going to do... are there any other heads out there?

Edit: just took a look at the Victor heads, great looking chamber design.. but I wonder if they are too much intake port for a street engine?


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: VincentVega] #1455101
06/20/13 01:10 PM
06/20/13 01:10 PM
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dogdays Offline
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There's no queation that the Edelbrock head combustion chamber is a copy of the 915 chamber, that's a 1967. Are the ports close? I don't know, but Steve Dulcich found that the 915 head had good swirl. That, added to the ability to build squish makes the 915 pretty desirable.

IMHO the 1968 chamber was a step in the wrong direction. I believe one of the problems was the MOPAR engineer's acceptance of low precision in the manufacturing process. Even though they had the area in place, the top of the piston was too far away from the head squish area. So, there was a large amount of cool, unburned hydrocarbons that never got taken care of. Remember that the squish area needs to be 0.040" or less, but the OEM design left at least 0.080" on most of the big blocks. The open chamber killed their "problem" which was caused by leaving the piston top too far down at TDC.

If you make sure to get the piston and the head squish area to be within 0.040" of each other, though, I think emissions will be better and depend more on camshaft and carb setup.

it is too bad that Edelbrock didn't put a better chamber in those heads, as was said before they had several examples of better chambers in production! Perhaps they were concerned about high compression dome fitment. Using the 915 chamber made sure that high compression domed pistons would fit.

R.

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: dogdays] #1455102
06/20/13 01:37 PM
06/20/13 01:37 PM
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Northeast
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VincentVega Offline
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Good read, thanks for posting that. I spoke to my dad for another perspective and he said he thought the victor would be too much head for my big heavy street cruiser (late B 4 door) and that the RPM would still work well with the closed design. He may be intrinsically biased though towards that style head since he still has his 67 440

Not many options to pick from, guess I will stick with the RPMs in my build plan and factor in good quench. thanks


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: VincentVega] #1455103
06/20/13 02:15 PM
06/20/13 02:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
Wonder if the new E-Street 75cc chamber heads add efficiency to the chamber? Think I also read the new Indy EZ has a "new style" chamber. My build is gonna be a 91 octane deal and a good chamber would be a deciding factor. I dont get to excited when I see a head with an old style open chamber either.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: 72Swinger] #1455104
06/20/13 02:21 PM
06/20/13 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
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VincentVega Offline
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Northeast
I looked at those too, but it said something about not compatible with roller cams, so that was a definitely red light for me


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads [Re: dogdays] #1455105
06/20/13 09:03 PM
06/20/13 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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junction city oregon
Quote:

There's no queation that the Edelbrock head combustion chamber is a copy of the 915 chamber, that's a 1967. Are the ports close? I don't know, but Steve Dulcich found that the 915 head had good swirl. That, added to the ability to build squish makes the 915 pretty desirable.

IMHO the 1968 chamber was a step in the wrong direction. I believe one of the problems was the MOPAR engineer's acceptance of low precision in the manufacturing process. Even though they had the area in place, the top of the piston was too far away from the head squish area. So, there was a large amount of cool, unburned hydrocarbons that never got taken care of. Remember that the squish area needs to be 0.040" or less, but the OEM design left at least 0.080" on most of the big blocks. The open chamber killed their "problem" which was caused by leaving the piston top too far down at TDC.

If you make sure to get the piston and the head squish area to be within 0.040" of each other, though, I think emissions will be better and depend more on camshaft and carb setup.

it is too bad that Edelbrock didn't put a better chamber in those heads, as was said before they had several examples of better chambers in production! Perhaps they were concerned about high compression dome fitment. Using the 915 chamber made sure that high compression domed pistons would fit.

R.




I bet you will find .080 was on the highest of compression 440. By 1973 it was more like .170 . Yes, one hundred seventy lol. And if you do the math, the true compression of a smog 440 is 7.7-7.8 to 1.

Re: Eldebrock RPM's vs. 440 Source Stealth heads *DELETED* [Re: Big Squeeze] #1455106
06/20/13 09:54 PM
06/20/13 09:54 PM

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