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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1439931
05/22/13 08:34 PM
05/22/13 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The first thing I noticed when you started this post and looking at the picture was the lack of threads from the adjuster out past the rocker. That is why I went to there instructions to see what the recommended. There was no info on that so it may not be an issue. T&D and some others want 2-3 threads beyond the body to help direct the oil to the push-rod cup to assist cooling. In a drag racing app it may not be as much of an issue. One reason I asked about how old the heads were is because Edelbock heads have a few issues. Tight guides and one of our members noticed that the oiling hole in the head bolt is not drill properly. the hole is drilled but it stops as soon as the bit breaks thru. When I checked a brand new set I had sitting here the hole was opened about 50%. Must be drilled on a CNC and being the hole is angled it should be set to drill about an 1/8 inch deeper.
Just looked back at the picture , it would appear that his pushrods are a bit too long ? how that effected this ? But add me to the "use solid spacers instead springs" crowd.
Sharp sells a lower cost rocker, it's bushed instead of full roller, that is sized properly to fit Ebrocks. I don't know if it comes in 1.6 though? Mancini sells them, Todd at CompWedgeRacing ???
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: JohnRR]
#1439932
05/23/13 01:48 AM
05/23/13 01:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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I'm game for solid spacers... I agree with everyone there. As far as the adjusters are concerned, every one has at least a partial thread showing. I have full thread engagement inside the rocker. I am going to buy a replacement rocker arm just to get it running again, but I am in the market for a better set. H-S's look like the way to go.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: moparlulu]
#1439934
05/24/13 02:27 AM
05/24/13 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Thank you for the offer, but I just burned $25 worth of Amazon cash-back points to get a replacement. They will be getting replaced, for sure, but I need the car running and a complete set for sale or use on a milder engine later.
I know that to be the case, but it has always been for oiling reasons, getting the right heighth to get oil into the cup. the ball and cup show no signs of distress. I am really starting to think it shifted sideways and moved the oil groove out of alignment with the hole in the shaft...
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439935
05/24/13 02:47 AM
05/24/13 02:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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OK, I lied, the ball and cup are blue. Didn't notice it until just now. Definitely oil starvation. Notice the intake pushrod is bent from opening the intake valve under such high pressure.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439938
05/24/13 07:59 AM
05/24/13 07:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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Through pushrod oiling and ball/ball is the way to go. It is very difficult for the oil to consistently "find" its way into that cup. IMO it works fine on old tractors (which it does) but has no place on any kind of high performance ICE. Get some T&D's and sleep very well. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439940
05/24/13 09:27 AM
05/24/13 09:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Another...
Check to see if you have the right size ball in the right size pushrod. Also I always start with black moly lube in those cups and ball ends. It could have got hot during intial start up before the oil get's there if it wasn't pre lubed with good hi pressure moly paste.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: bonefish]
#1439942
05/24/13 09:43 AM
05/24/13 09:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185
PA.
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I still don't like the springs. Mopars have push rod geometry problems to start with. Why compound the issue and say, "hey lets let this rocker go where ever it wants to". Like I said before I spend hours setting up a set of rockers so the side clearance and sweep pattern is exactly were I want it. It can't move with spacers and aluminum hold-downs limiting it. I then scribe each rocker and spacer with their proper position. If for some reason I am rushing at the track and have the shafts off no mistakes can be made.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439943
05/24/13 10:04 AM
05/24/13 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
OK, I lied, the ball and cup are blue. Didn't notice it until just now. Definitely oil starvation. Notice the intake pushrod is bent from opening the intake valve under such high pressure.
The problem with the pee hole is that on some it doesnt
spray the oil into the cup... you need to see each one
while the engine is running... then again as the revs
go up and oil pressure does also it MIGHT be missing
the cup.. I use the through PR oiling that way you
know its getting oil on the ends of the PR and rocker..
if you had TD shaft and some other rockers where the
adjuster has the hole in them to pass the oil down
the adjuster yours might be up in the rocker too far
and blocking off the oil passage(but you dont)
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439944
05/24/13 10:23 AM
05/24/13 10:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
One last one for now.
I'm not anywhere near as smart as most here but I still think your pushrods are too long by 2 threads.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: JohnRR]
#1439945
05/24/13 12:24 PM
05/24/13 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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JohnRR (and others), I agree, they are too long and since I have bent one and fried another, the new pushrods are going to be about .100 shorter. I'm going to purchase the rockers first, then use these as a baseline to get the right length on the new ones.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: bonefish]
#1439946
05/24/13 12:26 PM
05/24/13 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
thats why i did this to my 1.6 ,s100,s of passes no prob.
Is the hole oversize?
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439948
05/24/13 01:19 PM
05/24/13 01:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
bonefish
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
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Quote:
Quote:
thats why i did this to my 1.6 ,s100,s of passes no prob.
Is the hole oversize?
no ,its just angled properly.it shoots oil directly into the cup.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1439949
05/24/13 01:49 PM
05/24/13 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
JohnRR (and others), I agree, they are too long and since I have bent one and fried another, the new pushrods are going to be about .100 shorter. I'm going to purchase the rockers first, then use these as a baseline to get the right length on the new ones.
Take the pushrod that is bent and hand straighten it with a small hammer. (trust me if you take your time you can get it real close) Now take it and cut it in half with a tubing cutter. Remove an extra 3/4-1 inch from one of the cut pieces. Find the closest tap that will fit inside cut pieces and tap threads. (if it was a 3/8 pushrod probably a 5/16 tap) after both pieces are tapped find a piece of all thread or a bolt with long threads and cut a threaded piece at least 1 1/2 inches long. Use red 271 locktite on one side and thread into one of the cut pieces of the pushrod. screw other end into pushrod with no locktite. You now have the proper tool for checking pushrod lengths in future builds. 
I was going to suggest this but I'd just do it with a good one so you know it's straight , whether it's one valve or 2 it's no longer a complete set. 
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