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Throttle Stop Racing Question... #1423433
04/21/13 09:43 PM
04/21/13 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,874
Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline OP
master
STEFF  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,874
Smyrna, South Carolina
I went to ZMax today with Streetwize for the NHRA event there and got to experience some sportsman elims as well as the Pro's. This is my first experience with Super Comp in person. My question is this.........why not just build the car to run balls out for the index for the class?? As a spectator, it was excruciating to watch. To have a class where it basically throws away the first 1/3 of a run due to that stupid throttle stop bog, then go balls out, is Dumb!!

Hope I don't offend anybody, but as a new spectator to this type of racing, it's horrible to watch.

Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: STEFF] #1423434
04/21/13 09:47 PM
04/21/13 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
T
Triple Threat Offline
master
Triple Threat  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Horrible to watch to most, but by killing the car early in the run, they can run the index at a higher MPH. If you have much experience with bracket racing you can see how this is beneficial. You get to have the race out in front of you as the chaser and can generally drive the stripe easier.

I watch the index classes and most other racing from the finish line, that where it is interesting.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Triple Threat] #1423435
04/21/13 09:55 PM
04/21/13 09:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen Offline
pro stock
kissmyaspen  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
Quote:

Horrible to watch to most, but by killing the car early in the run, they can run the index at a higher MPH. If you have much experience with bracket racing you can see how this is beneficial. You get to have the race out in front of you as the chaser and can generally drive the stripe easier.

I watch the index classes and most other racing from the finish line, that where it is interesting.




nothing like having a 10-15 mph advantage over the competitor. maybe heads up but your the faster car.


79 Dodge Aspen
12.265 at 109.75 MPH

67 Satellite NSS/E
11.83 @ 110

1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi

3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street.
'07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: kissmyaspen] #1423436
04/21/13 10:29 PM
04/21/13 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,186
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline
master
Blusmbl  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,186
Plymouth, MI
One of the schools of thought for driving a super class car involves always setting it up to run .02-.03 under the index, and relying on being the car with the mph advantage and dumping off the excess at the stripe depending on where your opponent is located.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: STEFF] #1423437
04/21/13 10:46 PM
04/21/13 10:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
P
poisondart2 Offline
enthusiast
poisondart2  Offline
enthusiast
P

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
Quote:

I went to ZMax today with Streetwize for the NHRA event there and got to experience some sportsman elims as well as the Pro's. This is my first experience with Super Comp in person. My question is this.........why not just build the car to run balls out for the index for the class?? As a spectator, it was excruciating to watch. To have a class where it basically throws away the first 1/3 of a run due to that stupid throttle stop bog, then go balls out, is Dumb!!

Hope I don't offend anybody, but as a new spectator to this type of racing, it's horrible to watch.




I laughed when I read this as about a year ago I asked Al Alquire the same question. Now if i understand it going to different tracks the elvations vary a car that could only go that index with a few #s left would not be able to compete and the fact of chasing makes life way easy. I was intrigued and so bought another car to try this.Who knows could be fun

Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: poisondart2] #1423438
04/22/13 12:04 AM
04/22/13 12:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
1. You always want the car to be able to run faster than the index (10.90, 9.90, 8.90). With the hardware used today, the sweet spot is to have the car able to run 1.00 to 2.00 quicker than the index. It's easier to consistently slow the car that way than to try to slow it a tenth or two.

2. MPH. If you have more MPH and have the race in front of you, you have an advantage.

Lots of strategy and variables. It's not easy.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: CMcAllister] #1423439
04/22/13 01:27 AM
04/22/13 01:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
Like everyone said it is all about MPH for most. That being said being able to hit th tree and run the number is the name of the game. However there are many strategies involved in all forms of bracket and index racing. The nice thign about the index stuff is there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. But it is very much a monkey see monkey do world out there. The key to all of it is consistency and predictability. Boring to watch, very difficult to do well...


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423440
04/22/13 03:42 AM
04/22/13 03:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,332
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,332
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Like everyone said it is all about MPH for most. That being said being able to hit th tree and run the number is the name of the game. However there are many strategies involved in all forms of bracket and index racing. The nice thign about the index stuff is there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. But it is very much a monkey see monkey do world out there.


Al is absolutely correct on this, Jegggie, I think, maybe it was one of the other Cauglin boys, started the throttle stopping the car near the starting line and then having really big MPH on the other end. Originally, way back when throttle stops and electronic controllers first came out, everybody used them near the finish line and the big MPH boys won a bunch of races due to the other guys jumping on the binders to soon on the other end instead of focusing on making sure the car ran the number everytime Another case of drag racers doing Monkey see, monkey do It is also disgusting and hard to understand to the averge drag racing fan


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Cab_Burge] #1423441
04/22/13 09:59 AM
04/22/13 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
Quote:

Quote:

Like everyone said it is all about MPH for most. That being said being able to hit th tree and run the number is the name of the game. However there are many strategies involved in all forms of bracket and index racing. The nice thign about the index stuff is there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. But it is very much a monkey see monkey do world out there.


Al is absolutely correct on this, Jegggie, I think, maybe it was one of the other Cauglin boys, started the throttle stopping the car near the starting line and then having really big MPH on the other end. Originally, way back when throttle stops and electronic controllers first came out, everybody used them near the finish line and the big MPH boys won a bunch of races due to the other guys jumping on the binders to soon on the other end instead of focusing on making sure the car ran the number everytime Another case of drag racers doing Monkey see, monkey do It is also disgusting and hard to understand to the averge drag racing fan




I think there are many things the "average fan" has a hard time understanding. Sitting in the stands at Charlotte 3 days ago while the Safety Safari was spraying VHT between sessions and the guy behind me asks his buddy if they were spraying water or oil on the track...We'd all be running fuel cars if we really wanted to make most "fans" happy.

Pro Tree racing has a steep learning curve. Some days you can dial up .90s at will, other days you can't find your butt with both hands. It's fun, but it's not easy.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: STEFF] #1423442
04/22/13 10:42 AM
04/22/13 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,049
MN
J
JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,049
MN
They have to sell over priced hot dogs some how.

Jeff


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: JERICOGTX] #1423443
04/22/13 12:21 PM
04/22/13 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric Offline
top fuel
Eric  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
I enjoy it...actually I'm heading to Richmond on Friday for a Div so I took a few hits at PRP yesterday. Almost forgot how much I like a Pro Tree racing.

7677773-prp.jpg (40 downloads)

5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!

Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: JERICOGTX] #1423444
04/22/13 12:40 PM
04/22/13 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
FYI coming from a guy who has been to a few national events the last few years the AVERAGE fan leaves the stands as soon as the fuel cars are done. Most dont bother even staying for Pro Stock anymore. Let alone, bike or alcohol cars so lets get real here. All the average fan cares about is TF and FC, nothing else.

I do my best to explain whats happening to anyone who wants to know. Honestly most have a hard enough time comprehending stock and super stock which is just bracket racing 99.9% of the time. Just when they think they have it figured out ther is a heads up race thrown in there just to add to the confusion. If you really want to confuse them try explaining Comp


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423445
04/22/13 10:17 PM
04/22/13 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,186
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline
master
Blusmbl  Offline
master

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Posts: 8,186
Plymouth, MI
Quote:

I do my best to explain whats happening to anyone who wants to know. Honestly most have a hard enough time comprehending stock and super stock which is just bracket racing 99.9% of the time. Just when they think they have it figured out ther is a heads up race thrown in there just to add to the confusion. If you really want to confuse them try explaining Comp




Isn't stock or super stock only heads up if you get paired with somebody in your own class? I've heard the gentleman's rule is to let whomever is leading at 1000ft win so the class doesn't get an automatic review and horsepower added if you run too far under the index.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Blusmbl] #1423446
04/23/13 09:53 AM
04/23/13 09:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,749
Fulton County, PA
Quote:

Quote:

I do my best to explain whats happening to anyone who wants to know. Honestly most have a hard enough time comprehending stock and super stock which is just bracket racing 99.9% of the time. Just when they think they have it figured out ther is a heads up race thrown in there just to add to the confusion. If you really want to confuse them try explaining Comp




Isn't stock or super stock only heads up if you get paired with somebody in your own class? I've heard the gentleman's rule is to let whomever is leading at 1000ft win so the class doesn't get an automatic review and horsepower added if you run too far under the index.




Not everyone who class races is a gentleman. Most are, but some are actually p&#%ks.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: CMcAllister] #1423447
04/23/13 01:09 PM
04/23/13 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,386
Las Vegas
We call those guys Super Gas racers


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423448
04/23/13 01:17 PM
04/23/13 01:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen Offline
pro stock
kissmyaspen  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
Quote:

I do my best to explain whats happening to anyone who wants to know. Honestly most have a hard enough time comprehending stock and super stock which is just bracket racing 99.9% of the time. Just when they think they have it figured out ther is a heads up race thrown in there just to add to the confusion. If you really want to confuse them try explaining Comp



Comp is on messed up class I still don't understand it..


79 Dodge Aspen
12.265 at 109.75 MPH

67 Satellite NSS/E
11.83 @ 110

1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi

3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street.
'07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423449
04/23/13 02:52 PM
04/23/13 02:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric Offline
top fuel
Eric  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Quote:

We call those guys Super Gas racers




......


5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!

Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423450
04/23/13 07:55 PM
04/23/13 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
C
Chris'sBarracuda Offline
master
Chris'sBarracuda  Offline
master
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Quote:

We call those guys Super Gas racers







More commonly known as "The Corvette Roadster Shootout"




Chris..

Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423451
04/23/13 09:25 PM
04/23/13 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
A
all spooled up Offline
super stock
all spooled up  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
Quote:

FYI coming from a guy who has been to a few national events the last few years the AVERAGE fan leaves the stands as soon as the fuel cars are done. Most dont bother even staying for Pro Stock anymore. Let alone, bike or alcohol cars so lets get real here. All the average fan cares about is TF and FC, nothing else. there must be something wrong with me i watch everthing BUT TOP FUEL AND FUNNY CAR

I do my best to explain whats happening to anyone who wants to know. Honestly most have a hard enough time comprehending stock and super stock which is just bracket racing 99.9% of the time. Just when they think they have it figured out ther is a heads up race thrown in there just to add to the confusion. If you really want to confuse them try explaining Comp



Last edited by itsallgood; 04/23/13 09:27 PM.
Re: Throttle Stop Racing Question... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1423452
04/24/13 01:27 AM
04/24/13 01:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 427
Cascade, CO
reknapp52 Offline
mopar
reknapp52  Offline
mopar

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 427
Cascade, CO
Quote:

We call those guys Super Gas racers


C'mon Al--I've seen you in action--You're just a Super Gasser in S/ST disguise--

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