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18 spline Hemi trans question #1421778
04/18/13 03:53 PM
04/18/13 03:53 PM
Joined: May 2004
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69x Offline OP
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I had my trans rebuilt a few years back as it made too much noise when driving and was just tired, the place that did it I was told was very good, anyhow when they were done it was nice and quiet but sometimes when you went from 3rd to 4th it made a nasty sound, he told me just shift faster and you wont hear it, which is true. I should have had the stomach to say 'Fix it right' I was charged $1,300 at the time.
Anyhow I want to get it fixed right as it bugs me, what would cause that sound going to 4th gear ? I would not think I would need a complete rebuild. Trans has only about 2000 miles on it at the most.

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421779
04/18/13 04:22 PM
04/18/13 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules Offline
I'm neurotic
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closer to Canadian beer!
Quote:

I had my trans rebuilt a few years back as it made too much noise when driving and was just tired, the place that did it I was told was very good, anyhow when they were done it was nice and quiet but sometimes when you went from 3rd to 4th it made a nasty sound, he told me just shift faster and you wont hear it, which is true. I should have had the stomach to say 'Fix it right' I was charged $1,300 at the time.
Anyhow I want to get it fixed right as it bugs me, what would cause that sound going to 4th gear ? I would not think I would need a complete rebuild. Trans has only about 2000 miles on it at the most.




Probably either the blocker ring, or the dog teeth on input pinion (as you know there really isn't a 4th gear. The slider just locks the input shaft to the output shaft. Voila! Direct gear!) or the slider itself.

Only makes noise during the shift?

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: torkrules] #1421780
04/18/13 04:28 PM
04/18/13 04:28 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 887
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69x Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

I had my trans rebuilt a few years back as it made too much noise when driving and was just tired, the place that did it I was told was very good, anyhow when they were done it was nice and quiet but sometimes when you went from 3rd to 4th it made a nasty sound, he told me just shift faster and you wont hear it, which is true. I should have had the stomach to say 'Fix it right' I was charged $1,300 at the time.
Anyhow I want to get it fixed right as it bugs me, what would cause that sound going to 4th gear ? I would not think I would need a complete rebuild. Trans has only about 2000 miles on it at the most.




Probably either the blocker ring, or the dog teeth on input pinion (as you know there really isn't a 4th gear. The slider just locks the input shaft to the output shaft. Voila! Direct gear!) or the slider itself.

Only makes noise during the shift?


Yes, I crunch sound

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421781
04/18/13 04:42 PM
04/18/13 04:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline
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South Park, Pa.
Question is ; What did you get for $1300? For that kind of money, I'd at least expect all new drive gears, input shaft, bearings, seals syncro assys. gaskets, etc, etc, etc. Then if you have a problem, like you have now, grow some cahoona's and tell the guy it ain't right and it needs fixed.. It sounds like the input shaft dog teeth are gone, from your vague description.
For $1300 the only original parts should be the case.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 68LAR] #1421782
04/18/13 06:03 PM
04/18/13 06:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,915
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I had a similar problem as your initial problem with a 23-spline and the issue was resolved with a new front bearing. Who knows what they did to yours but as previously stated, $1300. should have bought you everything but the case and tailstock !!

And "shift faster" is just a smart-ass answer unless the guy knows you're really slow at shifting.

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421783
04/18/13 06:14 PM
04/18/13 06:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,317
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
If your dragging the clutch, not pushing it down all the way to completely disenage the clucth disc, it is probally grnding the steel slider teeth against the steel teeth on the gears


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: Cab_Burge] #1421784
04/18/13 06:36 PM
04/18/13 06:36 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 887
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69x Offline OP
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Quote:

If your dragging the clutch, not pushing it down all the way to completely disenage the clucth disc, it is probally grnding the steel slider teeth against the steel teeth on the gears


Thanks, but that is not the problem

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421785
04/18/13 07:26 PM
04/18/13 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,498
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Minnesota
Are you running synthetic lubricant? That could be the problem. If you're not running ATF try that and see if it helps.

Did you Dial in the bell housing? That could be it as well.


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31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
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Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1421786
04/18/13 09:00 PM
04/18/13 09:00 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 887
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69x Offline OP
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Quote:

Are you running synthetic lubricant? That could be the problem. If you're not running ATF try that and see if it helps.

Did you Dial in the bell housing? That could be it as well.


90 weight gear oil

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421787
04/18/13 09:34 PM
04/18/13 09:34 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 887
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69x Offline OP
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I dug out the paperwork and it was done 10 years ago, the cost was more then I remembered but that included a new Centerforce Clutch, so my memory was a bit off. This is what I can read from the paperwork, his writing is not very good so I cannot make it all out.

Parts

1 m/c114b $210
1 T.O. Brr gssb $84
1 Input house $95
1 Centerforce Clutch $510 18 Spline
4 Syro Brass $42
Hemi 4 speed case w- something shaft $75
1 Spedo gear $22
1 pilot Ber $17
Flywheel bolts $23
Oil $6

Description of work
Groom Gears $195
R&R 18 Spline $640
Turn Fly $50
labor $885
Parts $1092

So this is what was done, I will be the first to say I dont have allot of Knowledge on this so I reached out here. so from what I have provided maybe gives a better idead of what was done. I still dont think it should of made the sound of grinding gears going to 4th.

I know I should have spoke up then when I had it done, and I am going back to him cause I have heard he is a good guy, I dont have nothing to loose. him saying 'Just shift faster' is lame, any idea what he did not do to cause this ? Thanks Guys

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421788
04/18/13 09:46 PM
04/18/13 09:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,915
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
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Ontario, Canada
Quote:

Groom Gears $195


WTF is "groom gears" ?!?!?!?

And what's that first item for $210.?

$84. for a throwout bearing ... is it made of gold ???

And he seems to have replaced your case ... why? Unless it was cracked there's no reason to replace the case.

Ya got took if ya ask me.

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: Stanton] #1421789
04/18/13 10:24 PM
04/18/13 10:24 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 887
6
69x Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Groom Gears $195


WTF is "groom gears" ?!?!?!?

And what's that first item for $210.?

$84. for a throwout bearing ... is it made of gold ???

And he seems to have replaced your case ... why? Unless it was cracked there's no reason to replace the case.

Ya got took if ya ask me.


Did you not read my post correctly ?
I said I admit I dont know much about the insides of trannys, so how would I know what 'Groom Gears' means ? you dont appear to know but I am sure one of the people here that know this stuff will have a idea,
I dont know what the first item is, if you reread what I said you will see I said his writing was bad, I cannot recall a reason for the replaced case. You say 'Ya got took if you ask me' i did not ask you ok, I may have been took as you say but I just want to know what he did or did not do to cause my problem. just looking for some info from the people on here who know and not Smart A** comments

Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421790
04/18/13 10:41 PM
04/18/13 10:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
moparpollack Offline
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Groom Gears $195


WTF is "groom gears" ?!?!?!?

And what's that first item for $210.?

$84. for a throwout bearing ... is it made of gold ???

And he seems to have replaced your case ... why? Unless it was cracked there's no reason to replace the case.

Ya got took if ya ask me.


Did you not read my post correctly ?
I said I admit I dont know much about the insides of trannys, so how would I know what 'Groom Gears' means ? you dont appear to know but I am sure one of the people here that know this stuff will have a idea,
I dont know what the first item is, if you reread what I said you will see I said his writing was bad, I cannot recall a reason for the replaced case. You say 'Ya got took if you ask me' i did not ask you ok, I may have been took as you say but I just want to know what he did or did not do to cause my problem. just looking for some info from the people on here who know and not Smart A** comments




Lighten up we were just asking a question as we don't know what it means either.


56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: moparpollack] #1421791
04/18/13 11:21 PM
04/18/13 11:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart Offline
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Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Pretty sure the high load bearing is well over a hundred dollars. Could be the first item. Other is probably "case and main shaft" possibly.

Not sure what groom gears means. Clean them up, finish in some way?

http://www.taylor-race.com/isotropic.cfm

I think the OP knows that he spent some money. Sounds like he is just looking for some help rather than getting his investment picked apart.


383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421792
04/18/13 11:41 PM
04/18/13 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,558
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
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Rittman Ohio
Quote:

I dug out the paperwork and it was done 10 years ago, the cost was more then I remembered but that included a new Centerforce Clutch, so my memory was a bit off. This is what I can read from the paperwork, his writing is not very good so I cannot make it all out.

Parts

1 m/c114b $210
1 T.O. Brr gssb $84
1 Input house $95
1 Centerforce Clutch $510 18 Spline
4 Syro Brass $42
Hemi 4 speed case w- something shaft $75
1 Spedo gear $22
1 pilot Ber $17
Flywheel bolts $23
Oil $6

Description of work
Groom Gears $195
R&R 18 Spline $640
Turn Fly $50
labor $885
Parts $1092

So this is what was done, I will be the first to say I dont have allot of Knowledge on this so I reached out here. so from what I have provided maybe gives a better idead of what was done. I still dont think it should of made the sound of grinding gears going to 4th.

I know I should have spoke up then when I had it done, and I am going back to him cause I have heard he is a good guy, I dont have nothing to loose. him saying 'Just shift faster' is lame, any idea what he did not do to cause this ? Thanks Guys



Well I do a few of these on the side and it seems like your builder really steps on the parts more than he needs to
It's hard to decipher some of his charges but a few of the parts are right on target as far as market value is concerned.His labor prices are VERY high even for pro-builder shops out there.
18 spline boxes are expensive to build but yours seems to have been very needy in the labor department.When an 833 trans is built correctly with syncros you don't need to "shift it faster"
You didn't indicate what shop you used but if you live in the Akron Ohio area I would be glad to take a second look at it for you
Gus


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 69x] #1421793
04/18/13 11:42 PM
04/18/13 11:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline
master
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master

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Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
I don't know where you live, but I'd try draining the gear oil and install some Dexron ATF. For the money you've spent, another $10.00 shouldn't matter. In cold climates gear oil is like syrup and really make the tranny hard to shift and do funny things. It won't hurt, and if it works you've saved yourself a rebuild. Another thing I just remembered. Most gear oil sold in stores is GL5. Manual transmission need a GL4 type. Again my
Quote:

I dug out the paperwork and it was done 10 years ago,




Ten years is a long time and I don't think you can go back to him now.

Last edited by 68LAR; 04/18/13 11:48 PM.

4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: 68LAR] #1421794
04/19/13 12:48 AM
04/19/13 12:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,498
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
master
Hemi_Joel  Offline
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Posts: 7,498
Minnesota
I agree, try using ATF. It might just help.
Another question for you: Are you running the stock bell housing, or is there an aftermarket scatter shield in there? Like a Lakewood?
Since fourth gear is the only gear that it grinds into, i am suspecting misalignment of the input shaft caused by a bell housing bore that is not concentric with the centerline of the crankshaft. Aftermarket scatter shields are notorious for this, But it can happen with the stock Bellhousing too.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1421795
04/19/13 07:35 AM
04/19/13 07:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Gus, cool "in the grass" pic. I like it.


383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1421796
04/19/13 08:01 AM
04/19/13 08:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,085
Niles , Ohio
T
therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,085
Niles , Ohio
Gus for a shop the prices arent too bad.I paid almost 50 bucks for a timken TOB for my 23 spline 65 and that was shop price about 8 or so years ago.R&R the trans clutch and tear the trans down requires some decent labor.I see the story changes as first it sounded like a complete rebuild.Now its R&R the trans clutch etc.When I had the 65s trans done back in 69 it cost me about 450.Guy that did it replace syncros and slider and some bearing etc.He only charged me 50 bucks labor as I had the trans out.That and I knew him.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: 18 spline Hemi trans question [Re: therocks] #1421797
04/19/13 10:16 AM
04/19/13 10:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
master
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Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
I don't know where your buying your bearings but Brewer Performance sells complete rebuild kits for the 18 spline for $129 bucks which includes the bearing , syncro's gaskets etc. They will also go through your transmission and fix it right.


it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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