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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: Cab_Burge] #1420525 04/16/13 04:52 PM 04/16/13 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: What spark plugs are you running, brand and part #? I had a low compression(8.5 to 1 actaul) I/O drive boat motor that would ping using a Champion J12Y spark plug set but wouldn't ping using the next lower heat range, J11Y I would try the next colder heat range spark plugs The last iron headed 440 motor I tuned until it ping didn't like any total timing above 36 degrees on Oreogon non ethanol 91 octane pump swill I would put the total timing at 34 degrees revved up and readjust the intial to get between 14 and 18 BTDC I like and use really weak advance springs in my distributors so the total timing is all in by 2000 RPM My converters are a lot looser than that at WOT, they will flash to 4400 RPM or higher There very similar driving on the street to a stock Mopar 11 inch converter at light part throttle pressures below 3000 RPM also I am using NGK xr5s and have been for years. This problem was non existent with the auto and loose vert. With the manual the engine is getting load now at 2-3000rpm and that's where the problem start raring its ugly head, that and pure pump swill. If I could just run 5 gallons of 110 per tank and not kill my o2 sensor, this thread wouldn't exist. When the weather let's up I'm gonna try to keep my initial as is,set total to 34-35 and swap out one spring for the next heavier. I have the black bushing left to narrow the advance down to I think 18 degrees total mechanical to try. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420526 04/16/13 04:53 PM 04/16/13 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: [I am using NGK xr5s and have been for years. Arent XR5s the hottest plug NGK makes? 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: Von] #1420527 04/16/13 05:04 PM 04/16/13 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	I'm not sure but I thought were recommended for 10.1 iron head big block. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420528 04/16/13 05:10 PM 04/16/13 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,186 st.cloud fl D d-150 Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150 Smarter than a 5th grader? D Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,186 st.cloud fl	looking a t last dyno, 13.5 cruise 12.6 to 12.9 on throttle.160 t stat not good for street motor 180-195 is perfect.

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: d-150] #1420529 04/16/13 05:23 PM 04/16/13 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Trying to keep this Big Block Dart at 160 degrees for 5 laps around a road course just isnt gonna happen. So ive accepted the fact that 180-190 is where its gonna be. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420530 04/16/13 05:38 PM 04/16/13 05:38 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 741 WA JD Dart super stock
JD Dart super stock Joined: May 2006 Posts: 741 WA	I'd go with the heaviest springs you can put in there total timing all in by 4200 you won't lose throttle response can you have the program fatting it up in those areas. Too bad you don�t have the full fast system and have it control the timing.

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: JD Dart] #1420531 04/16/13 05:43 PM 04/16/13 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Yep I will do some experimenting and follow up what works. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420532 04/16/13 06:17 PM 04/16/13 06:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,918 Pattison Texas CSK master
CSK master Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,918 Pattison Texas	you can use e85 on the ezefi 1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420533 04/16/13 06:18 PM 04/16/13 06:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA	Try putting a NGK plug number ending in -6,-7 and a -8 I blew out a Fel Pro PT head gasket, melted the 440 block and a M.W. iron head betwween the cylinders on #4 and #6 by swappping from a NGK-7 plug to a -6 at the track Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: Cab_Burge] #1420534 04/16/13 06:23 PM 04/16/13 06:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	What? Really? Damn so these are a hot plug then? SO a 5670-6 would be next colder then? Yeah im open to reduce the chances of head gasket failure lol! Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420535 04/16/13 06:24 PM 04/16/13 06:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Trying to keep this Big Block Dart at 160 degrees for 5 laps around a road course just isnt gonna happen. So ive accepted the fact that 180-190 is where its gonna be. Put a larger radiator in it... there is no reason you cant keep it cool with a larger radiator and shroud EDIT I dont know the NGk numbers but if it is a hot one you most likely will take care of all your problems with a cooler plug... and maybe a touch more fuel Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/16/13 06:28 PM.

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1420536 04/16/13 07:33 PM 04/16/13 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: [ I dont know the NGk numbers but if it is a hot one you most likely will take care of all your problems with a cooler plug... and maybe a touch more fuel NGK numbers are backwards. The lower the number the hotter. 5 being the lowest and therefore the hottest... 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1420537 04/16/13 07:36 PM 04/16/13 07:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: Quote: Trying to keep this Big Block Dart at 160 degrees for 5 laps around a road course just isnt gonna happen. So ive accepted the fact that 180-190 is where its gonna be. Put a larger radiator in it... there is no reason you cant keep it cool with a larger radiator and shroud EDIT I dont know the NGk numbers but if it is a hot one you most likely will take care of all your problems with a cooler plug... and maybe a touch more fuel Mr. P it has an excellent radiator already. I really appreciate you guys all jumping in here and helping out. Thanks a bunch! I just ordered a set of R5670-6 NGK's and when it warms back up im gonna get this thing dialed for pump piss and hope for the best. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420538 04/20/13 08:49 PM 04/20/13 08:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Update. Changed plugs to the above NGK's and removed Silver bushing for the Black bushing. Replaced one light silver spring with one light blue. Set total timing to 35 and have about 17 intial. Huge difference! I get no ping in 2nd gear matting it at any RPM and just a tad if im lugging it in 3rd and tip in hard in the 1500 rpm range. I feel a bit of relief now that I dont feel like im ruining my engine whenever I drive it. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420539 04/20/13 11:42 PM 04/20/13 11:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Update. Changed plugs to the above NGK's and removed Silver bushing for the Black bushing. Replaced one light silver spring with one light blue. Set total timing to 35 and have about 17 intial. Huge difference! I get no ping in 2nd gear matting it at any RPM and just a tad if im lugging it in 3rd and tip in hard in the 1500 rpm range. I feel a bit of relief now that I dont feel like im ruining my engine whenever I drive it. Buy some NGK -7 I ran them on the street with pump swill a lot leaner AFR than your using But it is a automatic with a loose converter and aluminum heads now Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: Cab_Burge] #1420540 04/20/13 11:58 PM 04/20/13 11:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	I may just do that Cab. Im betting that when it warms up and air density gets worse it may be fine? Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420541 04/21/13 02:23 AM 04/21/13 02:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA	The last 906 iron headed pump gas motor I had in my Duster would ping in the summer heat with high humidity, not so when it was cooler and dryer Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420542 04/21/13 08:58 AM 04/21/13 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,245 Plymouth, MI Blusmbl master
Blusmbl master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,245 Plymouth, MI	Quote: I may just do that Cab. Im betting that when it warms up and air density gets worse it may be fine? In theory that makes sense, but in practice it's usually backwards from that. The temperature is the biggest contributor to detonation, if you get the intake air temp down you can run more timing. '18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: Blusmbl] #1420543 04/21/13 10:16 AM 04/21/13 10:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger OP master
72Swinger OP master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Ok well I better get some even colder plugs to at least have just in case. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB [Re: 72Swinger] #1420544 04/21/13 01:01 PM 04/21/13 01:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV dodgeboy11 super stock
dodgeboy11 super stock Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV	I'm running 9.7:1 with a TQ50 Erson cam, flat top KB pistons that are out .009" (oops), ported 452 heads, headers and a torker II intake. All in a 5000lb 4x4. Running a stock distributor with the slots shortened up and the heavy spring removed and, if I remember correctly, 38 degrees total timing. So far I have had zero problems with detonation. Running NGK V-power 7 plugs. I am at 5000 feet in elevation though. I took it to Vegas but had fuel delivery problems so I wasn't exactly hammering on it. It is a 4spd so the load is similar. I do, on occasion, have issues with the plugs fouling slightly at extended low RPM, but they clear up quickly. And by low RPM I mean 600 RPM lugging because I'm too lazy to downshift. Don't know if any of that helps =). I have a set of Stage VI heads I'm porting that will end up on there eventually. Tight quench with a .045" gasket and .009" out should make for a detonation resistant setup in spite of the higher compression. Guess I'll find out.

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