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How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? #1409816 03/27/13 03:02 PM 03/27/13 03:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	I'm curious based on people's experiences w/ sonic-checking OEM 440 blocks how common it would be that taking one to .055" or .060" oversize would really be taking a chance w/ thin cylinder walls. Both my current .060" OS rebuild and my backup-in-progress .055" OS were bored to those dimensions "due to circumstances out of my control" and neither were sonic-checked before that was done to verify wall thicknesses. As someone I used to hang out with a lot used to say, "It is... what it is...". These are early '70s blocks (as is my last untouched core 440 block), which IIRC doesn't mean squat as far as whether the walls are actually thicker or not than any other generation of OEM 440 block. So it makes me wonder if I'm really playing Russian Roulette(sp?) with them making 600+ HP. Thanks.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409817 03/27/13 03:09 PM 03/27/13 03:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Spend the coin and sonic check it.............no other way of knowing. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409818 03/27/13 03:53 PM 03/27/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,263 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,263 Bend,OR USA	Quote: I'm curious based on people's experiences w/ sonic-checking OEM 440 blocks how common it would be that taking one to .055" or .060" oversize would really be taking a chance w/ thin cylinder walls. Both my current .060" OS rebuild and my backup-in-progress .055" OS were bored to those dimensions "due to circumstances out of my control" and neither were sonic-checked before that was done to verify wall thicknesses. As someone I used to hang out with a lot used to say, "It is... what it is...". These are early '70s blocks (as is my last untouched core 440 block), which IIRC doesn't mean squat as far as whether the walls are actually thicker or not than any other generation of OEM 440 block. So it makes me wonder if I'm really playing Russian Roulette(sp?) with them making 600+ HP. Thanks. Probally not But you know the old adage about Murphys law, right I have seen more RB blocks break the main webs than split the cylinder walls when making bigger power than stock like your talking about Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: Thumperdart] #1409819 03/27/13 04:41 PM 03/27/13 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: Spend the coin and sonic check it.............no other way of knowing. Unfortunately, no shop that I know of in the general area has a tester and my budget doesn't currently include dropping $1K for a good one just for myself. From what I can tell, the cheap testers I've researched need to have the bore probe "massaged" to even get a reasonable reading which has discouraged me from bothering to try one of those out, either.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409820 03/27/13 04:46 PM 03/27/13 04:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Where the hell do you live............ Then it`s a coin toss..........good luck. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409821 03/27/13 04:46 PM 03/27/13 04:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 596 Mass. 8 80fbody mopar
80fbody mopar 8 Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 596 Mass.	I'm rolling the dice as well on a .060 440 block I have that's pretty fresh. Was a stock rebuild but now will hopefully be around 500hp-550hp when re-done. Crossing my fingers it will stay together for a couple seasons.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: 80fbody] #1409822 03/27/13 04:52 PM 03/27/13 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: I'm rolling the dice as well on a .060 440 block I have that's pretty fresh... Still looking for rings?

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: Thumperdart] #1409823 03/27/13 04:55 PM 03/27/13 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: Where the hell do you live... You'd be surprised... but the local machine shops haven't seemed to think they need to invest in a sonic checker. I'd probably have to drive a couple hours away to find someone with one, which starts to increase the PITA factor significantly.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409824 03/27/13 04:59 PM 03/27/13 04:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Quote: Quote: Where the hell do you live... You'd be surprised... but the local machine shops haven't seemed to think they need to invest in a sonic checker. I'd probably have to drive a couple hours away to find someone with one, which starts to increase the PITA factor significantly. No I wouldn`t........... I`ll take the "drive" PITA over the "guess it`s too thin" PITA any day............. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409825 03/27/13 05:14 PM 03/27/13 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,380 Marion, South Carolina [><] an8sec70cuda I Live Here
an8sec70cuda I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,380 Marion, South Carolina [><]	Quote: Quote: Where the hell do you live... You'd be surprised... but the local machine shops haven't seemed to think they need to invest in a sonic checker. I'd probably have to drive a couple hours away to find someone with one, which starts to increase the PITA factor significantly. It's the same way around here, but I got lucky and found a shop (Naylor's Racing Engines) a little over an hour away that could do it. They had to find their sonic checker first, lol. He said they never use it anymore since all the blocks they build (mostly BB chevy Dart blocks, etc.) are aftermarket and never have any issues. Charged me $40 to check it. I called several shops and noone had one or could even tell me who to go to...even called PAR and Gene Fulton's. CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1409826 03/27/13 05:28 PM 03/27/13 05:28 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 6,446 NJ-USA H HPMike master
HPMike master H Joined: May 2005 Posts: 6,446 NJ-USA	Hmmm A sonic tester is pretty much standard equipment for any competent machine shop. I would think if you had a boring bar you would almost have to have a sonic tester. Anyway. I sonic test all race builds and some street builds that are going oversize more than what is generally accepted. Many Mopar big blocks are pretty thin. I have cracked a few cylinder walls on .055" blocks. If its a race only deal, then go tall fill. Otherwise check it out and use discretion as needed. MB

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: HPMike] #1409827 03/27/13 05:37 PM 03/27/13 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	The .060" is simply going back together w/ a ring & bearing job since it checked OK (no cracks, etc.)) at the last inspection. I'm just band-aiding it to get the car back on the road... more or less. The pi$$er would be if the .055" block was tested and turned out to be too bleepin' thin. Other than the final decking, all of the rest of the machine work (bore & deck-hone, install aluminum main caps, etc.) is already done on it. Gawd, I'd hate to find out it's just a boat anchor... And I'd hate to blow it up, too.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: HPMike] #1409828 03/27/13 05:45 PM 03/27/13 05:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 596 Mass. 8 80fbody mopar
80fbody mopar 8 Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 596 Mass.	Would doing a tall fill distort the bore on a prepped block? I'm only going to hone 3-4 thou on this block (0.058 now) but would certainly consider filling it; if it were to increase my chances on it staying together. Sorry to hijack Brad.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: 80fbody] #1409829 03/27/13 05:59 PM 03/27/13 05:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver 64Post master
64Post master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver	I sidestepped a debate with a guru on FBBO that says there are no problems �blind� (not sonic checking) boring a stock block to +.060,� and that any problems with a thin/weak cylinder would have shown up at +.030.�

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: 64Post] #1409830 03/27/13 06:43 PM 03/27/13 06:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Quote: I sidestepped a debate with a guru on FBBO that says there are no problems �blind� (not sonic checking) boring a stock block to +.060,� and that any problems with a thin/weak cylinder would have shown up at +.030.� Who ever said that is a dumb a$$

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: VernMotor] #1409831 03/27/13 06:53 PM 03/27/13 06:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	I bought my own sonic tester and now that I have it I test everything. That said "ignorance is bliss" now I stress out over everything. Recently had a Hemi block that was killer on the major thrusts on one bank and just so so on the other bank. Then it had this one area way down low that measured .119 that is when you lay in bed at night and think. Honestly, Brad talking about it here will get you nowhere, or worse than that Pee'd off and nowhere. Get them tested and and make a choice OR Turn the key and forget about it. Last edited by scatpacktom; 03/27/13 06:56 PM.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409832 03/27/13 06:59 PM 03/27/13 06:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	I Always go .060 some have gone .100 never have checked one but maybe should down the road!

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: BradH] #1409833 03/27/13 07:02 PM 03/27/13 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,060 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,060 Oregon	I've sonic tested a lot of Mopar blocks and 0.060 over is pushing the limit a fair amount of the time. To have two blocks that are both good to 0.060 without the benefit of any sonic checking would be a stroke of luck. Speaking of that, I have a really nice early 400 block that I spent a bunch of money on years ago. It had a lot of nice machine work to it and it was ready to assemble with a 499 sroker kit. I happened to buy my sonic checker around the same time as that shortblock was going together so I checked the 400 block. One cylinder was super thin at 0.075. So that block is still sitting on the shelf. I can't quite bring myself to tossing it, but I don't want to build it either. Maybe someday I'll sleeve it.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: Dodgem] #1409834 03/27/13 07:04 PM 03/27/13 07:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana DblOJoe mopar
DblOJoe mopar Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana	Mines .060 and never sonic checked also but it don't make much power just a bracket car.

Re: How common is a .055" OS 440 cylinder really too thin? [Re: AndyF] #1409835 03/27/13 07:05 PM 03/27/13 07:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 462 Stockholm, Sweden fed mopar
fed mopar Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 462 Stockholm, Sweden	Sleeve it! My 340 have 8 sleevs! Cuda, -70 Valiant-65 AWB, Valiant Signet200 -65 Topchopped dragcar. Topolino Fuel Altered. NostalgiaFED Sold, SuperComp Bantam Altered, Sold Ex Harlan Thompsons Nitro funny car American Graffiti Sold,

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