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Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
#1405362
03/20/13 01:08 PM
03/20/13 01:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
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Hello,
I am checking to gauge the interest of making a recast run of A body M code exhaust manifolds for A body darts and cudas. If you guys are familiar with these you know how hard the driver's side manifold is to get and we are checking interest to see how many people would be interested in getting a recast driver's side manifold to see if it would even be feasible to make the tooling for a small run of 10 or so. It would be recast from a low low miles original I have. Please let me know if anyone has any interest in one as the price point would be in the $1200 range. Thanks
1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: kidmopar]
#1405367
03/20/13 02:14 PM
03/20/13 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,367
Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
hemi71x
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,367
Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
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How about the "Max Wedge" Tri-Y manifolds?
Scott Smith, here on Moparts, once thought about getting those repoped.
But he needed a set to have the patterns made off of.
Nobody came forward with a pair to have copied.
Too rare of an item to find.
Not enough of a demand to justify the cost in getting them repoped.
At one time, i owned just the left side of one of those Tri Y manifold sets.
Last edited by hemi71x; 03/20/13 02:16 PM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: hemi71x]
#1405369
03/20/13 02:53 PM
03/20/13 02:53 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
How about the "Max Wedge" Tri-Y manifolds?
Scott Smith, here on Moparts, once thought about getting those repoped.
But he needed a set to have the patterns made off of.
Nobody came forward with a pair to have copied.
Too rare of an item to find.
Not enough of a demand to justify the cost in getting them repoped.
At one time, i owned just the left side of one of those Tri Y manifold sets.
AS cool as those were, I just cant see enough of a demand to make them.
MB
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: vette1986]
#1405370
03/20/13 03:11 PM
03/20/13 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
Quote:
Would making a bigger run bring down the cost ?
yeah it would but I do not know if there would be enough demand. The more they could sell the cheaper they could be.
I think you could sell more than 10 ? How many would it take to get the price down to say $750 ?
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: HPMike]
#1405380
03/20/13 09:55 PM
03/20/13 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about the "Max Wedge" Tri-Y manifolds?
Scott Smith, here on Moparts, once thought about getting those repoped.
But he needed a set to have the patterns made off of.
Nobody came forward with a pair to have copied.
Too rare of an item to find.
Not enough of a demand to justify the cost in getting them repoped.
At one time, i owned just the left side of one of those Tri Y manifold sets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS cool as those were, I just cant see enough of a demand to make them.
MB
Either way, if I could get a set loaned to me I'd get them made anyway 
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1405381
03/20/13 10:12 PM
03/20/13 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,555
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 17,555
Las Vegas, NV
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No casting/pricing experience & no M-code A-body in this fight, but there are a number of reproduction exhaust manifolds made for the collector car market (and I understand the much larger quantity of the others brings their price lower).
Initially the need for 10 buyers was mentioned, $1200 each (& recently the $600 cast & finish cost per piece) and I believe & understand there is profit in there for whomever is partaking/funding the venture.
So where is the total price coming from? It doesn't take many more pieces to get it below $1000 each.
$12K total $3,000 tooling & $9,000 (10 X $900) = $1200 each
$12K total $4,500 tooling & $7,500 (10 X $750) = $1200 each
$12K total $6,000 tooling & $6,000 (10 X $600) = $1200 each
$21K total $3,000 tooling & $18,000 (20 X $900) = $1050 each
$19.5K total $4,500 tooling & $15,000 (20 X $750) = $975 each
$18K total $6,000 tooling & $12,000 (20 X $600) = $900 each
$39K total $3,000 tooling & $36,000 (40 X $900) = $975 each
$34.5K total $4,500 tooling & $30,000 (40 X $750) = $867.50 each
$30K total $6,000 tooling & $24,000 (40 X $600) = $750 each
If someone goes thru the motions to make this happen, inventory needs to sit on a shelf somewhere, if you find 10 buyers this month & produce these manifolds, is buyer number 11 that hears about this in May '13 S-O-L?
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405382
03/20/13 10:44 PM
03/20/13 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
Hell they only made 1000 cars,
Less than that ... try 640
I'm with Tom , I wouldn't put a deposit on something that MIGHT be made , may take 2 years to make, and even then unless I had the option to not buy should I not like the finished product and get my deposit back.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1405384
03/20/13 11:12 PM
03/20/13 11:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
 ~640 of the '69 Dart M-code GTSs & ~340 of the 440 'Cudas
I forgot about the plymouths .
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1405386
03/21/13 09:51 AM
03/21/13 09:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,403
cheshire, ct
davesmopars
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
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cheshire, ct
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if they are made correct with all the stampings. they will sell for 1200.00
I sold a set for 4200 and I had at least 6 people in line to buy them. So at 1200.00 I would say you will sell 20 to 30 set at least. I had an M code Cuda. So being around other M code owners, they will sell.
Keeper of the 440 M code Cuda registry
mcodecuda@yahoo.com
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: davesmopars]
#1405387
03/21/13 10:08 AM
03/21/13 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
if they are made correct with all the stampings. they will sell for 1200.00
I sold a set for 4200 and I had at least 6 people in line to buy them. So at 1200.00 I would say you will sell 20 to 30 set at least. I had an M code Cuda. So being around other M code owners, they will sell.
he is not making a pair , he is making the left only . At 1200 a PAIR I'd put up a 1200 deposit ...
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1405390
03/21/13 02:09 PM
03/21/13 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
I personally believe they should have no casting dates but should be made exactly to spec minus the dates. 
 , there should also be some identifier that is not easy undone so that mysteriously unfound pairs start showing up on ebay and such ...
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1405391
03/21/13 02:53 PM
03/21/13 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,780
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I personally believe they should have no casting dates but should be made exactly to spec minus the dates.
, there should also be some identifier that is not easy undone so that mysteriously unfound pairs start showing up on ebay and such ...
Excellent points 
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: davesmopars]
#1405393
03/22/13 12:49 PM
03/22/13 12:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
big-block-dave
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
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As I am the person running the M-'cuda ONLY registry I have had a few people in the past asking me to keep an eye out for 2017 manifolds.
If this goes somewhat forward I would give say 6 months to try to track down buyers.
Then a 15-20 or 20-30 part run should be done. It's a matter of who or how that much money could be fronted? Would the casting comp hold the extra ones not sold initially until buyers came forth?
If one person had the money to buy say 5-10 parts then he would have to make some amount of profit for his investment. So that makes the price higher for future buyers. Where if the casting comp held them the price would stay the same.
Has this comp re-cast exhaust manifolds before? If so then there should be sample parts out there that we can compare against originals to get an idea of their work/quality to help satisfy some concerns of the people on this post looking to buy.
I'm the CARETAKER of Weinstats '69 440 'cuda registry and have 104 of the 360 cars to date. 84 fastbacks/20 coupes. Always looking for new(REAL M-code) '69 440 'cudas to add to the registry so drop me a note if any are found or known. This isn't a publicly released registry. Thanks, Dave
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: big-block-dave]
#1405394
03/22/13 01:03 PM
03/22/13 01:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
big-block-dave
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
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Just another thought to make the re-popped manifolds identifiable from originals would be to have the part# inverted so it is readable when on a car instead of up-side down? That would help future buyers to not get scammed for high dollars if someone represents a re-pop as on original.
There has to be some identifier, just leaving the date off isn't good enough as far as i'm concerned. Some of the original 2017's out there don't have readable dates on them.
I'm the CARETAKER of Weinstats '69 440 'cuda registry and have 104 of the 360 cars to date. 84 fastbacks/20 coupes. Always looking for new(REAL M-code) '69 440 'cudas to add to the registry so drop me a note if any are found or known. This isn't a publicly released registry. Thanks, Dave
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405396
03/22/13 05:15 PM
03/22/13 05:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,799
minnarusta
TX9H6E4CUDA
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,799
minnarusta
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So wait one minute people are on here complaining about how repo parts are not correct like the originals and the next minute you want them to be not correct like the originals Make up your mind people 
For the absolute best powder coating go to J.I.T powder coating, contact infomation is in my personal profile..
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: TX9H6E4CUDA]
#1405397
03/22/13 05:28 PM
03/22/13 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,367
Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
hemi71x
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
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All you people that are wanting, needing, the Left side exhaust manifold, what are you going to do about the Right side manifold?  Will you be needing one of them also, to make a pair? I don't understand what just a leftie is going to do, if you don't have a pair of them. Is everyone going to have to find a right one then?
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405399
03/22/13 09:08 PM
03/22/13 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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I have several right side manifolds as the 383 lefts tended to crack and were replaced by headers.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: TX9H6E4CUDA]
#1405403
03/23/13 03:24 PM
03/23/13 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,353
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Quote:
So wait
one minute people are on here complaining about how repo parts are not correct like the originals and the next minute you want them to be not correct like the originals
Make up your mind people
I'm not complaining about the look of all parts.
But case in point , Max Wedge manifolds , someone repopped them and they were being passed off as originals. there was a way to tell but not everyone knew so many got taken to the cleaners thinking they were buying originals .
i have 2 prs. of 383 manifolds , I don't have an Mcode car but I'd like to have the manifold should I decide to drop a 440 in the car and go pure stock racing , but I want to see it FIRST so I'll wait and pay the premium if need be ...
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: big-block-dave]
#1405407
03/24/13 12:20 PM
03/24/13 12:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,403
cheshire, ct
davesmopars
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,403
cheshire, ct
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If you can guaranty they will be made as close to originals in writing we can talk. I will put up all the money and buy them all! People with these cars will only what them if they are made correct. If not I am out.
Last edited by dletourneau; 03/24/13 12:21 PM.
Keeper of the 440 M code Cuda registry
mcodecuda@yahoo.com
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1405410
03/25/13 11:51 AM
03/25/13 11:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Alberta, Canada
albert19
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Alberta, Canada
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Who ever makes these manifolds needs to guarantee the quality and the $1200 price otherwise don't even do the castings.
Last edited by albert19; 03/25/13 11:51 AM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: TX9H6E4CUDA]
#1405411
03/27/13 12:00 PM
03/27/13 12:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Quote:
So wait
one minute people are on here complaining about how repo parts are not correct like the originals and the next minute you want them to be not correct like the originals
Make up your mind people
Because it's about the money, perceived value, and bragging rights about how tough the resto was to complete.
Holders of orig parts (some of whom have bought/hoarded orig manifolds in order to flip), now see their nestegg being cracked if new eggs are laid.
Personally, I hope it does get reprod, I don't think anybody should have to pay $2000+ for a factory manifold.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Fury Fan]
#1405412
03/27/13 12:26 PM
03/27/13 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 206
foristell mo
serano
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 206
foristell mo
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I don't care if people have hoarded M code parts.And Frankly I hope they get their price for them.Why have a very desirable car if all you have is melted down toyota's molded into repo parts.Chryslers are the last hope for the repo guy's.All of us are getting to the age of not rebuilding these cars.The Ford and GM guy's can now sit down in front of their computer and order a complete car.Guess that is what you guy's want.I have always loved the hunt,not just for the parts but meeting a lot of great guy's,and a few .Either way you go-Good Luck with the endeavor.
Last edited by not_a_charger; 03/28/13 06:33 AM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: vette1986]
#1405414
03/31/13 01:44 PM
03/31/13 01:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,215
Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,215
Mesa, Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Would making a bigger run bring down the cost ?
yeah it would but I do not know if there would be enough demand. The more they could sell the cheaper they could be.
I think you could sell more than 10 ? How many would it take to get the price down to say $750 ?
from what I was told they might not go that low as the casting and finishing cost alone is close to $600 as they are such a hard design. The bonus on them is that the insides are actual cleaned out by hand which allows them to get the manifold to flow better than the original did, they will still flow badly as the design is not good but they should flow a little better. I am not the one doing the run they are just using my core but I would say they will probably have to keep them up close to $1000 but if there was enough demand who knows as it is the tooling cost he needs to offset and that is not cheap!!
I actually have flow bench numbers that show the driver side A body manifold flows just as good as the B body driver side.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: albert19]
#1405415
03/31/13 01:49 PM
03/31/13 01:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,215
Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,215
Mesa, Arizona
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Quote:
The exhaust manifolds that you have for sale are for 1968 and 1969 383 cars. It is true that these manifolds will work on the 1969 440 M-code Dart/Barracudas but they are not the same. The drivers side 1969 440 exhaust manifold is a completely different beast.
Do we have a comparison pic? I've seen several M codes and the manifolds look the same. Maybe the Rhino can shed some light on this?
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: vette1986]
#1405418
04/01/13 10:09 AM
04/01/13 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Next time I run out to the old shop I can take a picture of the 729 and 017 next to each other. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 04/01/13 10:09 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1405419
04/01/13 02:03 PM
04/01/13 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 675
cali
68mannix
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 675
cali
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: 68mannix]
#1405420
04/01/13 02:04 PM
04/01/13 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 675
cali
68mannix
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 675
cali
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405423
01/25/14 12:06 AM
01/25/14 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,780
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,780
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Looks like the casting costs for this project turned out to be exorbitant. Never came to be. There are only so many of these cars left, so market is limited. Unlike Max Wedge or Hemi cars no one wants to put M code manifolds on a clone, they are worthless for performance.
I'd like to have a drivers side to go with my car when I sell. Maybe one of the speculators here will give one up? PM me. Until then, my free breathing C Body manifold serves me well.
Would that C-Body exhaust manifold happen to be this one 2883409 ?
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: A12]
#1405425
01/25/14 12:09 AM
01/25/14 12:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 833
Ohio
viperakron
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 833
Ohio
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405426
01/25/14 12:17 AM
01/25/14 12:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,780
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Yep looks like that one.
Then it sure does look like it flows better than the M-code stocker
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1405427
01/25/14 10:58 AM
01/25/14 10:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
Quote:
I personally believe they should have no casting dates but should be made exactly to spec minus the dates.
, there should also be some identifier that is not easy undone so that mysteriously unfound pairs start showing up on ebay and such ...
RE: The Mopar logo on the originals: I imagine the repops would not be allowed to have them.
But, that's all moot now, isn't it.............
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1405428
01/25/14 12:02 PM
01/25/14 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Quote:
if they are made correct with all the stampings. they will sell for 1200.00
I sold a set for 4200 and I had at least 6 people in line to buy them. So at 1200.00 I would say you will sell 20 to 30 set at least. I had an M code Cuda. So being around other M code owners, they will sell.
he is not making a pair , he is making the left only . At 1200 a PAIR I'd put up a 1200 deposit ...
John,if done how long do you think they would stay at $1200 ? I thing the Max Wedge started around $750,check the price now !!
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1405429
01/25/14 12:37 PM
01/25/14 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,016
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,016
North Dakota
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I don't have an M code anything (except my Superbee  ) but if I did I'd be all over this like a starving man on a loaf of bread. Deposits on parts not made are investments. And like any investment there is a risk. Most of the time you win, some of the time you lose. If I needed the manifold and it required a $600 deposit with another $600 at delivery, all I'd say is "who do I make the check out to?". IMHO it's worth the gamble. As to the look of the repop, make it look as exact as possible. On the back, non-visible, side of the manifold cast some identifier that shows it as a repop. That way on the car it looks original, in your hands you can tell it isn't. None of this is difficult, just costly.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: viperakron]
#1405432
01/25/14 09:40 PM
01/25/14 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,016
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 11,016
North Dakota
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Quote:
If the cost went from 1200 per manifold to 6500 would you be all over it? Casting went from 6500 to 25000 due to intricacy of the lower section on these pinched manifolds. Went from a simple sand cast to a complicated aluminum fill. Sand cast would of cracked under any stress. So the math doesn't make it practical.
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I don't have an M code anything (except my Superbee ) but if I did I'd be all over this like a starving man on a loaf of bread. Deposits on parts not made are investments. And like any investment there is a risk. Most of the time you win, some of the time you lose. If I needed the manifold and it required a $600 deposit with another $600 at delivery, all I'd say is "who do I make the check out to?". IMHO it's worth the gamble. As to the look of the repop, make it look as exact as possible. On the back, non-visible, side of the manifold cast some identifier that shows it as a repop. That way on the car it looks original, in your hands you can tell it isn't. None of this is difficult, just costly.
Not to appear pissy here, but I'll repeat myself. At $1200 for the manifold:
1) I'd want one
2) I'd be willing to take a chance on it coming together
I think what you are trying to ask is "If you put your $600 down and then found out the finished product was going to be $6500, would you stay in the game and be willing to pay another $5900?" Answer: Probably not.
I'll ask your next question for you, "Would you try to get your $600 deposit back?". Of course I would try. If however it had been spent to discover the new price was now $6500, well, like I said before, sometimes investments pay off, sometimes they don't. You just have to put on your big boy pants and move on.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: 6PakBee]
#1405433
01/27/14 03:40 AM
01/27/14 03:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Denver, CO
Oneida Garage
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Denver, CO
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I've got a background in design and contract manufacturing - over 20 yrs. I've also got a pretty good handle on this market, and I think that selling 20 - 25 sets is doable as a break-even proposition, which is what I am willing to do.
Cost is a secondary concern (within reason), and it doesn't matter what they flow. The only thing that matters is that they are as identical to the original pieces as conceivably possible, numbers and all. I've spoken with the Chrysler's licensing subcontractor on several occasions, and let's just say I'm not too worried about that detail, not on a handful of manifolds.
What I do not know is:
A) Where to get a pair to copy
B) Where to turn for quality cast iron pieces domestically. This is a disappearing industry stateside, and the number of places willing to take on a charity case like this is miniscule. I do have extensive Asian connections due to my other line of work, but I refuse to pursue that direction on a vintage American automobile part. Would anyone like to pass along the name of the foundry doing the Max Wedge and Hemi manifolds?
I figure it can't hurt to pursue this a bit, whether it has been done before on not. I can't count the number of doors slammed on me over the years, it's nothing new. I'm not afraid to try... nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you can help with a good set to loan or sell, or have info on a quality, sympathetic foundry, give me a shout. Thanks.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Oneida Garage]
#1405435
01/27/14 12:15 PM
01/27/14 12:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,403
cheshire, ct
davesmopars
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,403
cheshire, ct
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I looked into making 017 driver side very seriously.
Found two places that do this stuff. "USA MADE" I was going to make 20 of them. They were going to be 100% correct with numbers and dates. The price was going to be around 1800.00. The reason they are so much is the bend around the steering column, not easily done and time consuming. It's not the 20 that is a lot of money, it's the R&D for one. They make one and they give you one change get them correct, then you start paying more. The problem is, When it is all set looks great you start testing them, how long do you test for? OK you are all done testing. What If you start having an issue with them after they are out, like cracking. What you do? Thats a lot of money to redo or get a bad name. I Love to go them. Just a big risk for 20 parts.
Last edited by davesmopars; 01/27/14 12:18 PM.
Keeper of the 440 M code Cuda registry
mcodecuda@yahoo.com
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Oneida Garage]
#1405437
01/28/14 05:56 AM
01/28/14 05:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 142
OhiO
drgordi
member
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member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 142
OhiO
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Good thing I don't have to look for a set, mine still has the originals. By the time this is all said and done there will be more M CODE cars than the factory made. Mine are for sale and also come with the car $30,000 and you don't have to do any r&d to use them. Just my thought on this it should be like getting a fender tag made unless you have documentation of ownership then you can't get an exact copy, just a reproduction without part numbers.
Last edited by drgordi; 01/28/14 08:47 AM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: drgordi]
#1405438
01/28/14 10:06 AM
01/28/14 10:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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I worked with these guys in the past on a huge/complex aluminum transmission casting that was almost as big as a Fiat 500. http://www.deltaresearch.com/They are not cheap, but they will do small-run stuff. They work with a small pattern shop (their name escapes me), who worked with a company that 3D-prints the casting cores, and then sent it all to the foundry, then Delta machined everything afterward. 4 companies involved in the final bill, but there are benefits in this particular chain. The pattern shop had software to model the thermodynamics of the foundry pour process against the cores, cope & drag, This is not so much to accurately capture the part’s geometry, but more to ensure that there is good metal flow throughout with no cold spots, knit lines, etc -- which minimizes the # of practice pieces. Based on the pics of this manifold, even though complex to us, it’s a fairly simple part – I’d be surprised if it took more than 2 practice pours (and the 2nd one would probably be usable). And when it’s all finalized, they get more 3D-printed cores and knock them out pretty easily. Cost benefits of the high-tech process will be realized in getting thru the initial R&D pieces with less waste, production run pieces might be a bit cheaper, and you could flip the switch and get another batch 5 years from now that would be identical. So if you guys are serious, put your research and investor hats back on, and get somebody to offer up OEM pieces to get laser-scanned into a 3D model. But be aware – the 3D cores have a nice surface finish, and these manifolds will look *much* better than the originals.
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Commando1]
#1405440
01/28/14 10:27 AM
01/28/14 10:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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They are probably already here but limited to deep-pockets R&D/prototype companies. I've seen stuff made out of sintered metal that was 3D-printed. They guy that is successful at printing a good B-block EFI manifold for the stroker guys will probably see a nice ROI. BTW Commando - there's a $21,000 66 300 on ebay you should look at, saw it last nite. Thought it was a dreamer-open/no-bid thing, but no, people have pushed the bids that high. Might be the one for ya.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Fury Fan]
#1405441
01/28/14 10:56 AM
01/28/14 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,892
poplar bluff mo.
toplescuda
I Whine
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I Whine
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,892
poplar bluff mo.
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Would 3d printing be helpfull in making molds for this? heck they can make a gun with it and it works
1970 barracuda convert. 1 of 59
1970 pro street A.A.R. clone (panther pink)
1971 charger
2015 hellcat challenger. Redline red
2014 quad cab 4x4 ram 8 speed hemi
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: drgordi]
#1405442
01/28/14 12:05 PM
01/28/14 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,049
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Quote:
Good thing I don't have to look for a set, mine still has the originals. By the time this is all said and done there will be more M CODE cars than the factory made. Mine are for sale and also come with the car $30,000 and you don't have to do any r&d to use them. Just my thought on this it should be like getting a fender tag made unless you have documentation of ownership then you can't get an exact copy, just a reproduction without part numbers.
I don't think anyone would clone a 440 A-Body around $1200 exhaust manifolds!  Besides, there were 640 Darts made and very few have been found intact, so there must be plenty out there left to be restored! 
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: toplescuda]
#1405444
01/29/14 10:03 AM
01/29/14 10:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Quote:
Would 3d printing be helpfull in making molds for this? heck they can make a gun with it and it works
Yeah, it probably would be helpful for making the part to form the molding sand around for the cope and drag (for those wondering, those are the 2 molds that form the outer surfaces of the part). The printing I mentioned earlier was for the cores, so they actually need to be a special printable sand that doesn't melt when the alum or iron is poured in.
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Oneida Garage]
#1405445
02/19/14 08:01 PM
02/19/14 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,926
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
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Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,926
fredericksburg,va
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Quote:
Many thanks for the replies.
The complexity of the casting itself is not lost on me.
Financially speaking, I see this as a high-risk, zero-reward proposition. My eyes are wide open on that one.
But simply, as far as the cars are concerned, I think this is something that needs to be done. Were I the lucky owner of a brand-new '69 M-code dart, I'd have thrown those manifolds in the dumpster immediately, like most everyone else did.
My set were taken of after 13 miles, put on a shelf till i bought them,still factory fresh and so glad he saved them. I'm standing on the fence on this issue because the manifold is one of the items that define an M-code unlike taillights, grills,etc. Will it degrade the real cars? Who's to say. Accurate ex. made some C-body manifolds for this car in place of original, i'm thinking of doing this and have the real one in the trunk,scared of cracking it. I plan on driving mine.
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1405447
02/20/14 03:16 PM
02/20/14 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,784
Corpus Christi, TX
shanker
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,784
Corpus Christi, TX
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The only way to get this to work, would be with the people who are target "consumers" to become "Investors"...that way the risk is shared as well as the reward.
If 2 years down the line and some of the castings start to crack or have any problems, the "Investors" realized that going into an investment to get correct manifolds for their cars and could contact the manufacturer (company that casted) them directly, or take them to a machine shop and repair them on their own dime.
The Federal Government has not yet learned that you cannot legislate morality
1970 Coronet R/T FF4/FF8/V85/V1G 440/Auto/3.23
1970 Coronet R/T FK5/FK5/V8W/V1W 440/Auto/3.55
1970 Super Bee TX9/TX9/V8W/N96 383/Auto/3.91
1975 Duster 360 VS29L5 Daily Driver
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1405449
09/05/14 08:26 AM
09/05/14 08:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Florida
blewbyu
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Florida
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Quote:
Bringing this back up again as I just got an email from a man who wants to make them for sure! Need to really find out who is really serious.
Do you know a cost yet?
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Re: Interest in M code exhaust manifold A body??
[Re: 68mannix]
#1405451
09/05/14 07:00 PM
09/05/14 07:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Florida
blewbyu
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Florida
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Quote:
Didnt you just by a set for around 1800?
Hell yes I did, am I not allowed to ask? 
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but what to do?
You know my feelings on it, I would be in for one for sure! 
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