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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: Devil]
#139795
10/23/08 08:07 PM
10/23/08 08:07 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Have you gone thru this Service Bulletin? This is a heat and vibration sensitive area. I would replace the connector and CPS just to have piece of mind. This problem may not always set a code. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1992/18-04-92.htm
Last edited by Stevo; 10/23/08 08:09 PM.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 10sec440]
#139797
10/28/08 10:48 PM
10/28/08 10:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
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Ok, bit of an update. Today, I needed the truck to pick up some molding. So I started it up and let it run for a minute or two before I got it. I put it in reverse and could here the truck start to sound weaker, so I also applied the bread and sure enough it died. So this time, I put it in park and pop the hood. I take off the cap and depress the valve on the fuel rail. I would say maybe a tablespoon or so of fuel jumped out, but that was it, even though the valve was depressed. I went around to the cab and tried to restart. It would only spin over. Then I again tried to floor the gas pedal. It started a few seconds later. I then put it in drive and tried again to brake the truck and it got quiet and died. I again tried to depress the vavle on the fuel rail and again only a tablespoon amount of fuel shot out. No more. Not knowing if this was the correct amount or not, I restarted the truck (gas pedal to floor method) and while it was running depressed the fuel rail valve. A lot more shot out, so I stopped.
After this the truck would not die again. So I went to the hardware store and came back. While re-reading the post I noticed you asked for me to leave the key in the ON position. I cannot recall if it was in the ON position or not. Not sure if any of what I did would help diagnos the issue.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: moparmojo]
#139798
10/28/08 11:45 PM
10/28/08 11:45 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Check the computer for error codes first. This is a logical first step in the diagnostic procedure. Fuel pump/pressure problems will not set a code but lets make sure there aren't other problems too. The 2 fuel squirts you refer to sound about right but that does not test the pressure. First off when it wont start, turn the key off and back to on and listen for the fuel pump in the tank to hum for 2 to 3 seconds. No hum=no start. Electric fuel pumps do strange things when their bearings start to freeze up, like no starts and poor performance. This is why you should always keep at least a 1/4 tank of fuel to help cool the fuel pump. When it doesn't start you can also try a shot of starting fluid in the throttle body, if it starts and dies then you know you have a fuel problem. Just went thru this on a 91 Mercury, replaced the pump and all is well.
PROCEDURE
Turn ignition switch ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON in less than 5 seconds, observe the Malfunction Indicator Lamp. The Malfunction indicator lamp should flash a series of codes. Flashes will be separated by short or long pauses. A long pause indicates a change from "tens" to "ones" position, or a change to next code.
For example a single flash followed by a long pause and then 2 more flashes separated by a short pause and followed by a long pause would indicate a code 12.
FLASH........FLASH...FLASH........
A code 55 will be displayed at the end of the test.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 10sec440]
#139800
10/29/08 12:58 AM
10/29/08 12:58 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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He needs to check for code 11 first in the computer. If there is a Crank or Cam position sensor problem this will drop the ASD/Fuel Pump relays and cut off power to parts of the igniton system and fuel pump, thus cranking and checking for voltage will show 0 after about 3 seconds. The fuel pump will not run if the computer does not see pulses from BOTH sensors.  Fuel Pump Relay Description and Operation LOCATION Relay is mounted in engine compartment, on the left inner fender. PURPOSE Relay supplies battery voltage to fuel pump and oxygen sensor heater element when energized by Powertrain Control Module (PCM). OPERATION PCM energizes fuel pump relay by supplying relay ground, when ignition switch is in START or RUN position and PCM is receiving a reference signal from distributor. When PCM does not receive reference signal from ignition system, (indicating engine is not running), then the PCM interrupts relay ground circuit and no voltage is supplied to fuel pump, ignition coil, or oxygen sensor heater element. PCM controls fuel pump relay and Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay simultaneously, through same ground circuit.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
#139801
11/01/08 01:06 AM
11/01/08 01:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,278
Mission BC
10sec440
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,278
Mission BC
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Quote:
He needs to check for code 11 first in the computer. If there is a Crank or Cam position sensor problem this will drop the ASD/Fuel Pump relays and cut off power to parts of the igniton system and fuel pump, thus cranking and checking for voltage will show 0 after about 3 seconds. The fuel pump will not run if the computer does not see pulses from BOTH sensors.
Overcomplicated, all you have to do is check for power at the pump and if there is no power work toward the front. Chances are he will have power and need a pump. If he was a tech and had a scanner, voltmeter and service manual the other way would be the way to go.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 10sec440]
#139802
11/01/08 01:37 AM
11/01/08 01:37 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
He needs to check for code 11 first in the computer. If there is a Crank or Cam position sensor problem this will drop the ASD/Fuel Pump relays and cut off power to parts of the igniton system and fuel pump, thus cranking and checking for voltage will show 0 after about 3 seconds. The fuel pump will not run if the computer does not see pulses from BOTH sensors.
Overcomplicated, all you have to do is check for power at the pump and if there is no power work toward the front. Chances are he will have power and need a pump. If he was a tech and had a scanner, voltmeter and service manual the other way would be the way to go.
There wont be any power at the pump after 2 to 3 seconds after turning the key to on!! The electric pump does not recieve power all the time, if it did and you had an accident then it would spill gas all over the place and cause a fire. Checking for codes is simple and the first part of diagnostics. Using the key to retieve codes is very simple. There IS NOT Power to the fuel pump all the time...read up on the theory. With no power there due to the enginnering design your diagnostic tip is useless. No pulses from crank or cam position sensor and there is NO power at the pump.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
#139803
11/01/08 01:46 AM
11/01/08 01:46 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The theory again....
Description and Operation
LOCATION
Relay is mounted in engine compartment, on the left inner fender.
PURPOSE
Relay supplies battery voltage to fuel pump and oxygen sensor heater element when energized by Powertrain Control Module (PCM).
OPERATION
PCM energizes fuel pump relay by supplying relay ground, when ignition switch is in START or RUN position and PCM is receiving a reference signal from distributor.
When PCM does not receive reference signal from ignition system, (indicating engine is not running), then the PCM interrupts relay ground circuit and no voltage is supplied to fuel pump, ignition coil, or oxygen sensor heater element.
PCM controls fuel pump relay and Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay simultaneously, through same ground circuit.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
#139804
11/01/08 09:38 PM
11/01/08 09:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,278
Mission BC
10sec440
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,278
Mission BC
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He needs to check for code 11 first in the computer. If there is a Crank or Cam position sensor problem this will drop the ASD/Fuel Pump relays and cut off power to parts of the igniton system and fuel pump, thus cranking and checking for voltage will show 0 after about 3 seconds. The fuel pump will not run if the computer does not see pulses from BOTH sensors.
Overcomplicated, all you have to do is check for power at the pump and if there is no power work toward the front. Chances are he will have power and need a pump. If he was a tech and had a scanner, voltmeter and service manual the other way would be the way to go.
There wont be any power at the pump after 2 to 3 seconds after turning the key to on!! The electric pump does not recieve power all the time, if it did and you had an accident then it would spill gas all over the place and cause a fire. Checking for codes is simple and the first part of diagnostics. Using the key to retieve codes is very simple. There IS NOT Power to the fuel pump all the time...read up on the theory. With no power there due to the enginnering design your diagnostic tip is useless. No pulses from crank or cam position sensor and there is NO power at the pump.
Oh I know the theory, I have 22 years of Chrysler training to prove it. Again, if you read my earlier posts, you have to check for power WHILE CRANKING.I was trying to help the guy with his problem the EASIEST WAY with very little equipment. If he has power at the pump while cranking he need not look any further.I am done here,mojo if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 10sec440]
#139805
11/02/08 12:05 AM
11/02/08 12:05 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He needs to check for code 11 first in the computer. If there is a Crank or Cam position sensor problem this will drop the ASD/Fuel Pump relays and cut off power to parts of the igniton system and fuel pump, thus cranking and checking for voltage will show 0 after about 3 seconds. The fuel pump will not run if the computer does not see pulses from BOTH sensors.
Overcomplicated, all you have to do is check for power at the pump and if there is no power work toward the front. Chances are he will have power and need a pump. If he was a tech and had a scanner, voltmeter and service manual the other way would be the way to go.
There wont be any power at the pump after 2 to 3 seconds after turning the key to on!! The electric pump does not recieve power all the time, if it did and you had an accident then it would spill gas all over the place and cause a fire. Checking for codes is simple and the first part of diagnostics. Using the key to retieve codes is very simple. There IS NOT Power to the fuel pump all the time...read up on the theory. With no power there due to the enginnering design your diagnostic tip is useless. No pulses from crank or cam position sensor and there is NO power at the pump.
Oh I know the theory, I have 22 years of Chrysler training to prove it. Again, if you read my earlier posts, you have to check for power WHILE CRANKING.I was trying to help the guy with his problem the EASIEST WAY with very little equipment. If he has power at the pump while cranking he need not look any further.I am done here,mojo if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck.
Once again...you will NOT have 12 volts at the pump after 2 to 3 seconds IF the Cam Position Sensor or the Crank Position sensor is faulty while cranking! Read the theory again! The fuel pump relay ONLY supplies voltage to the fuel pump when the computer sees pulses from the sensors, if no pulse(as in bad sensor) that means NO voltage. So why check for voltage on a circuit that may not have it there by engineering design? The easiest way to do this is to use the ignition key and check for error codes first. Thats not too hard is it? Dont need a scanner for this. With your theory that the fuel pump gets voltage all the time would also mean that if injectors are pulsing along with the fuel pump running and there is no spark the engine would hydrolock with fuel! No way.
Now you could jumper the relay to test the wiring back to the fuel pump but then you have to be certain that 12 volts is actually leaving the relay before you go back to the fuel pump.
To the original poster, sorry for side tracking the problem but you must receive the correct information or you will be chasing ghosts.
I also have experience of 39 years. 
Regards-Stevo
When PCM does not receive reference signal from ignition system, (indicating engine is not running), then the PCM interrupts relay ground circuit and no voltage is supplied to fuel pump , ignition coil, or oxygen sensor heater element.
Last edited by Stevo; 11/02/08 12:16 AM.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 5537SG]
#139808
11/02/08 11:08 AM
11/02/08 11:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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The problem is the poster of this thread has done nothing to properly verify a few simple items. He needs to check for codes and verify actual fuel pressure when its acting up. Duh..................
Last edited by NITROUSN; 11/02/08 11:11 AM.
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 5537SG]
#139810
11/02/08 01:23 PM
11/02/08 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
he does need to do that. I think we all know it too. At this point he may consider spending a few dollars on a fuel pressure guage and rig something up. Nothing fancy, just a cheap guage and some hose or whatever that wont leak. No need for a fancy test kit to do this.
Ive driven many miles with the fuel pressure guage propped up under the windshield wiper of countless cars.
fuel pressure should be one of the first things checked with drivability problems.
Exactly................
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: 5537SG]
#139811
11/02/08 03:22 PM
11/02/08 03:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
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You're correct. I am slowly trying to diagnos the problem. And for the record, I consider myself a parts changer. No father son training, just sort of self taught. Electrical problems are usually my worst issues.
I did play with the truck the other day. Hard to diagnos because it does not always act up or die. I definately feel it is temp related. When it is colder out, it seem more likely this will occur. But not after it is warmed up for a long while. I got the truck to die, so I checked for codes. The only code I got was #12 & #55. I did have the battery out the other day while cleaning the terminals. Next I will go get a fuel pressure gauge and try to get it hooked up for more info on this issue. I appreciate all the input, the dealer has had the truck 3 times and failed to correctly fix the problem. As I said before, I spent a bit of money with them trying to get it fixed, so I did not want to go back to them again. Can someone tell me where I will need to hook the fuel pressure gauge to?
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Re: 92 Ram. Im begging for good mechanic advice...please
[Re: moparmojo]
#139813
11/02/08 04:31 PM
11/02/08 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
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Fuel pump problem is very likely. Had a couple do very similar things.Check the fuel pressure, should be 40 with Sbec III.Very rare but it is also possible that the fuel press reg might be bad.(it's on the rail)BTW 3.9L and 5.2L in 92 were both SMPI w/return fuel.All Magnums 1993 3.9L,5.2L,5.9L and up were returnless fuel system.Fuel press regulated in the tank by the pump.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
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