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Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382819
02/07/13 05:29 PM
02/07/13 05:29 PM
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WO23Coronet Offline
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Where did u find a 6.4 block? Aren't those hard to come by or can u get them from Mopar? And what is his going into? An LX car? If not what are u going to control it with?

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: sixpackgut] #1382820
02/07/13 06:19 PM
02/07/13 06:19 PM
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hemidup Offline
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Quote:

what is the rocker ratio? i forgot




1.62


Jerry Williams.
Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: hemidup] #1382821
02/07/13 06:30 PM
02/07/13 06:30 PM
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This will show my ignorance, but here goes. Has the oiling issue been figured out? Was this issue only with stock cranks? I'd really like to build one of these but there is so much different, conflicting information that everytime I start digging I give up.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: hemidup] #1382822
02/07/13 06:51 PM
02/07/13 06:51 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

what is the rocker ratio? i forgot




1.62





Is this the ratio for all Gen III HEMI'S? Also, what exactly is the problem with the rockers when the lift gets over the .600" mark? Bad geometry? Rockers start to fail?

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1382823
02/07/13 07:28 PM
02/07/13 07:28 PM
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hemidup Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

what is the rocker ratio? i forgot




1.62





Is this the ratio for all Gen III HEMI'S? Also, what exactly is the problem with the rockers when the lift gets over the .600" mark? Bad geometry? Rockers start to fail?




Yup. Over .600" lift the rocker geometry is affected. Here's a pic of a rocker tip @ .542" lift.

At .600" the rocker tip is almost off the valve stem.

7579330-Dragpak178.jpg (455 downloads)
Last edited by hemidup; 02/07/13 07:30 PM.

Jerry Williams.
Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: hemidup] #1382824
02/07/13 09:10 PM
02/07/13 09:10 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Are there lash caps and locks that would help fix the valve train geometry? I figure that a lash cap would help put the rocker tip closer to where it needs to be for the higher lift.


8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: gregsdart] #1382825
02/08/13 05:38 AM
02/08/13 05:38 AM
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Finland
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tyly Offline
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Interesting topic!!
Keep the pics and updates coming.

This is mine projeckt.
I had 5.7 Hemi and now I put new 6.4 manual version.
Computer, what I use found here. http://www.tatech.fi/



headers and oil pan testing




Plymouth Superbird 440-6, 4-speed Dodge Challenger convertible 5.7 HEMI
Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: gregsdart] #1382826
02/08/13 01:06 PM
02/08/13 01:06 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline OP
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Quote:

Are there lash caps and locks that would help fix the valve train geometry? I figure that a lash cap would help put the rocker tip closer to where it needs to be for the higher lift.




That's what I was going to try if the geometry is that out of whack. I know my valves are sunk in a little from stock, so who knows, the tip location may be fine.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: hemidup] #1382827
02/08/13 01:16 PM
02/08/13 01:16 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline OP
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Quote:

Steff, So your using a G4 block with a G3 crank? Did you have to do any work on the crank snout or will your custom cam belt drive eliminate that?




Yes, My belt drive is designed with the G3 crank, as all the aftermarket cranks are Pre-VCT G3 design.

To fix the Pre VCT crank issue in the VCT block, using a timing chain, you just need to make a spacer to put the timing gear in the right spot.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382828
02/15/13 10:25 PM
02/15/13 10:25 PM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline OP
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Making some progress. Short Block is almost finished. Just need to degree Cam in and install Oil Pan and it's done.

Torquing Rods Bolts. I really like the Bolt Stretch method over using a Torque Wrench. Basically, the torque number is meaningless........stretch the bolts to .006" and DONE!!


Belt Drive is installed and tomorrow I will be degreeing the Cam in. Once the Heads and Rockers are on, I will re degree, to see if the overall spring loading changes the cam centerline position.




Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382829
02/16/13 08:27 AM
02/16/13 08:27 AM
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Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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Looks good Steff!

I am relatively new to the late model stuff and fuel injection, but I do wonder if the cam position sensor arangement (That wheel on the camshaft pulley and sensor) could be made more compact and aesthetically pleasing? If I had a core engine to try it on, I would give it a go atleast.

Keep us up to date on your progress, I have always been a fan of your builds!


Alan Jones
Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: LA360] #1382830
02/16/13 09:28 AM
02/16/13 09:28 AM
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Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline OP
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Quote:

Looks good Steff!

I am relatively new to the late model stuff and fuel injection, but I do wonder if the cam position sensor arangement (That wheel on the camshaft pulley and sensor) could be made more compact and aesthetically pleasing? If I had a core engine to try it on, I would give it a go atleast.

Keep us up to date on your progress, I have always been a fan of your builds!





I'm not really happy with the "look" of the cam sensor arrangement either. I don't really know that much about cam sensors & trigger wheels and that is something I need to address. The stock stuff is on there out of necessity. I'd LOVE to clean up the front the engine, but for now, I have to use it.

Thanx!!

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382831
02/16/13 09:51 AM
02/16/13 09:51 AM
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Warren, MI
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eff,

that looks awesome. if it performs half as good as it looks i think you got a winner.


Superior Design Concepts
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Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382832
02/16/13 10:22 AM
02/16/13 10:22 AM
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Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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Quote:

Making some progress. Short Block is almost finished. Just need to degree Cam in and install Oil Pan and it's done.

Torquing Rods Bolts. I really like the Bolt Stretch method over using a Torque Wrench. Basically, the torque number is meaningless........stretch the bolts to .006" and DONE!!


Belt Drive is installed and tomorrow I will be degreeing the Cam in. Once the Heads and Rockers are on, I will re degree, to see if the overall spring loading changes the cam centerline position.









Looking good I have a ? for you.
Have you tried to put the G3 cam inside your G4. I know the front bearing is larger in the G4 but was wondering if the rest was the same?
The reason I was asking was that I was thinking of a front spacer to run a G3 cam IN the G4 block.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: MattW] #1382833
02/16/13 10:39 AM
02/16/13 10:39 AM
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STEFF Offline OP
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Spacer alone will not cut it. The length of the cam is different as well. You'd have to make a snout for the G3 cam to compensate for the difference in length and diameter. Then that snout would have to be pressed onto the G3 cam prior to final journal grinding to make sure all journals are concentric to each other. I've been thru this thought process. I even cosidered machining the front of the block to open up the front of the block like the G3 front is and then spacer the bore for a G3 front cam bearing. The problem with doing that is they redesigned the front cooling passages as well, so with the machining needed, it would blow right into the relocated cooling passages. Then, in order to fix that , you'd have to look at redirecting the coolant in the heads from where these original passaged flowed to. Again, I've been thru all of this thought process and the G4 & G3 blocks are different in front that they require their own specific parts.

This is why I had LSM machine up a custom cam core. The $800 for the cam was cheaper than all the cobbling up that would be needed to avoid it.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382834
02/16/13 10:48 AM
02/16/13 10:48 AM
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MattW Offline
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Quote:

Spacer alone will not cut it. The length of the cam is different as well. You'd have to make a snout for the G3 cam to compensate for the difference in length and diameter. Then that snout would have to be pressed onto the G3 cam prior to final journal grinding to make sure all journals are concentric to each other. I've been thru this thought process. I even cosidered machining the front of the block to open up the front of the block like the G3 front is and then spacer the bore for a G3 front cam bearing. The problem with doing that is they redesigned the front cooling passages as well, so with the machining needed, it would blow right into the relocated cooling passages. Then, in order to fix that , you'd have to look at redirecting the coolant in the heads from where these original passaged flowed to. Again, I've been thru all of this thought process and the G4 & G3 blocks are different in front that they require their own specific parts.

This is why I had LSM machine up a custom cam core. The $800 for the cam was cheaper than all the cobbling up that would be needed to avoid it.



Wow so much for thinking outside of the box.
So this would be some of the reasons for the spacer on the crank and the timing cover being thinner on the G4.
Thank you for posting all your stuff. I'm getting a clearer picture of things I need to get and address before putting mine together.
Any chance of incorporating a engine plate and belt drive all in one?

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382835
02/16/13 12:26 PM
02/16/13 12:26 PM
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WO23Coronet Offline
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Quote:

Spacer alone will not cut it. The length of the cam is different as well. You'd have to make a snout for the G3 cam to compensate for the difference in length and diameter. Then that snout would have to be pressed onto the G3 cam prior to final journal grinding to make sure all journals are concentric to each other. I've been thru this thought process. I even cosidered machining the front of the block to open up the front of the block like the G3 front is and then spacer the bore for a G3 front cam bearing. The problem with doing that is they redesigned the front cooling passages as well, so with the machining needed, it would blow right into the relocated cooling passages. Then, in order to fix that , you'd have to look at redirecting the coolant in the heads from where these original passaged flowed to. Again, I've been thru all of this thought process and the G4 & G3 blocks are different in front that they require their own specific parts.

This is why I had LSM machine up a custom cam core. The $800 for the cam was cheaper than all the cobbling up that would be needed to avoid it.




Do up have a picture of the G4 and G3 cam side by side so we can get a visual on the differences? Or at least a pick of the G4 cam so I can compare it to my 6.1 cam I have here?

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1382836
02/16/13 12:28 PM
02/16/13 12:28 PM
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STEFF Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Spacer alone will not cut it. The length of the cam is different as well. You'd have to make a snout for the G3 cam to compensate for the difference in length and diameter. Then that snout would have to be pressed onto the G3 cam prior to final journal grinding to make sure all journals are concentric to each other. I've been thru this thought process. I even cosidered machining the front of the block to open up the front of the block like the G3 front is and then spacer the bore for a G3 front cam bearing. The problem with doing that is they redesigned the front cooling passages as well, so with the machining needed, it would blow right into the relocated cooling passages. Then, in order to fix that , you'd have to look at redirecting the coolant in the heads from where these original passaged flowed to. Again, I've been thru all of this thought process and the G4 & G3 blocks are different in front that they require their own specific parts.

This is why I had LSM machine up a custom cam core. The $800 for the cam was cheaper than all the cobbling up that would be needed to avoid it.




Do up have a picture of the G4 and G3 cam side by side so we can get a visual on the differences? Or at least a pick of the G4 cam so I can compare it to my 6.1 cam I have here?




Sure can, but not till I get home later.

Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: STEFF] #1382837
02/16/13 01:22 PM
02/16/13 01:22 PM
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Re: My 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi - Assembly In Process!!!!! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1382838
02/16/13 03:43 PM
02/16/13 03:43 PM
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GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
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GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
Looks good Steff

what are you using that big fitting where I think the oil cooler lines plumb to?

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