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Ring & Pinion WOW! #1374357
01/22/13 08:25 PM
01/22/13 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
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Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Has anybody seen this before, brand new ring & pinion broke in per instructions, 4th pass down at the track at the big end with a small block! Really!

7557567-Gear.jpg (487 downloads)

1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374358
01/22/13 08:33 PM
01/22/13 08:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 369
California, USA!!!
W
WheelsUp73 Offline
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California, USA!!!
That breakage has nothing to do with breakin. What brand of gears are those? That sucks and I can't say I have ever seen that happen before.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: WheelsUp73] #1374359
01/22/13 09:11 PM
01/22/13 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,285
okla.
sam64 Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,285
okla.
which went first,d shaft or pinion?the pinion splines don't appear to have any twist to them.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374360
01/22/13 09:42 PM
01/22/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
340B5 Offline
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Grain pattern looks loose in that pic. There should be a tighter grain pattern around the outer edge.


Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: sam64] #1374361
01/22/13 09:43 PM
01/22/13 09:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
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El Dorado Ca
Is that because the metal is to hard? and i don't see why the driveline would let go when it has the least amount of force on it i was at a 1000 ft, its a street car and only runs low 11's


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374362
01/22/13 09:45 PM
01/22/13 09:45 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,853
South Bend
John Brown Offline
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I'd think it's time to have the remains checked for hardness.


July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374363
01/22/13 09:50 PM
01/22/13 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,804
McGregor,Iowa 52157
5
500ciDuster Offline
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McGregor,Iowa 52157
Thats Awsome! Glad everything is ok

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374364
01/22/13 09:57 PM
01/22/13 09:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Strang that it broke at the top end of the track..
but that grain looks weird... I dont think its over
hardened... if it was there would be sharp edges on
parts of the break... but its not soft... you dont see
any twisting lines... weird

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374365
01/22/13 10:47 PM
01/22/13 10:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965 Offline
master
Exit1965  Offline
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Rancho Cordova, CA
What brand?


Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 340B5] #1374366
01/22/13 10:54 PM
01/22/13 10:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 180
long island newyork
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Abodyjohn88 Offline
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long island newyork
Maybe some type of vibration? Harmonics can do funny things

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: Exit1965] #1374367
01/22/13 11:09 PM
01/22/13 11:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

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Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

What brand?






Richmond


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: Abodyjohn88] #1374368
01/22/13 11:10 PM
01/22/13 11:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

Maybe some type of vibration? Harmonics can do funny things




No vibration very smooth going down the track


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374369
01/22/13 11:23 PM
01/22/13 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
could be a thermal fracture from heat treat or a lamination from the parent material.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374370
01/22/13 11:46 PM
01/22/13 11:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
I've seen that years ago in a 4x4 with less than 3 miles on it on the street What pinion angle did you have between the drive shaft and pinion shaft?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: Cab_Burge] #1374371
01/23/13 01:05 AM
01/23/13 01:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
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ill
All 4 u joint bolts have been hitting something? ,The issue maybe the axle wrap up and putting drive shaft in a bind would be my best guess

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: dennismopar73] #1374372
01/23/13 01:19 AM
01/23/13 01:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

All 4 u joint bolts have been hitting something? ,The issue maybe the axle wrap up and putting drive shaft in a bind would be my best guess




GOOD eye... I didnt see that, but you are right....
unless that happened after the shaft and yoke hit the
ground... the reason I say that the one nut looks
way more ground off.... but good eye
Question for the OP.... you dont have those big caps
that hold the U-joint in do you... they will hit the
drive shaft when the shaft turns(instead of the bolts)

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/23/13 01:24 AM.
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: dennismopar73] #1374373
01/23/13 05:26 AM
01/23/13 05:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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junction city oregon
Quote:

All 4 u joint bolts have been hitting something? ,The issue maybe the axle wrap up and putting drive shaft in a bind would be my best guess





That could be from when it hit the ground spinning at 100+ mph?

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: viperblue72] #1374374
01/23/13 05:29 AM
01/23/13 05:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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junction city oregon
Is that break right where the splines start? Maybe not enough radius on the edges where the splines begin? That would make it break really easily right there.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: viperblue72] #1374375
01/23/13 09:45 AM
01/23/13 09:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
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MD-USA
Quote:

Quote:

All 4 u joint bolts have been hitting something? ,The issue maybe the axle wrap up and putting drive shaft in a bind would be my best guess





That could be from when it hit the ground spinning at 100+ mph?




I'd say no, the flange behind it doesn't look worn down.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: viperblue72] #1374376
01/23/13 10:45 AM
01/23/13 10:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
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74yellowduster Offline
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maryland
Quote:

Is that break right where the splines start? Maybe not enough radius on the edges where the splines begin? That would make it break really easily right there.




what if the pinion nut was not torqued to spec? could that cause this?

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374377
01/23/13 11:26 AM
01/23/13 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Quote:


No vibration very smooth going down the track




If the u-joint was hitting something I don't think the OP would've posted this.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 74yellowduster] #1374378
01/23/13 12:21 PM
01/23/13 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,763
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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Quote:



what if the pinion nut was not torqued to spec? could that cause this?




This is my guess

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: FastmOp] #1374379
01/23/13 12:45 PM
01/23/13 12:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Eighty Four, PA
We have seen this quite a few times and have done it once myself.Usually it's overtorque that caused the problem.I assumed my airwrench would only torque to 150# wrong.I was left holding the yoke in my hand.Many assume the torque setting for a pinion nut is 240+# or as tight as you can get it with a 2 foot cheater pipe.There are varied setting depending on the pinion stem diameter and if it's straight or tapered.These specs can range from 125#ft to 250#ft.Always check with the manufacture for the correct setting.My thoughts are use a new lock nut,locktight and tighten as needed,you can even center punch the nut in several places to insure it doesn't back off.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: viperblue72] #1374380
01/23/13 03:38 PM
01/23/13 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

Quote:

All 4 u joint bolts have been hitting something? ,The issue maybe the axle wrap up and putting drive shaft in a bind would be my best guess





That could be from when it hit the ground spinning at 100+ mph?




Yes close to 115, the driveshaft broke into 3 pieces and 2 pieces went for a ride.


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: B G Racing] #1374381
01/23/13 03:41 PM
01/23/13 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

We have seen this quite a few times and have done it once myself.Usually it's overtorque that caused the problem.I assumed my airwrench would only torque to 150# wrong.I was left holding the yoke in my hand.Many assume the torque setting for a pinion nut is 240+# or as tight as you can get it with a 2 foot cheater pipe.There are varied setting depending on the pinion stem diameter and if it's straight or tapered.These specs can range from 125#ft to 250#ft.Always check with the manufacture for the correct setting.My thoughts are use a new lock nut,locktight and tighten as needed,you can even center punch the nut in several places to insure it doesn't back off.





Pinion nut was tighten to allow for the correct preload on the pinion with new bearings it was set to 20 inch pounds of rotation drag..


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374382
01/23/13 05:42 PM
01/23/13 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
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Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
What case was this ? 741 , 742 or 489 ? If a 489 did you use a solid spacer or the crush sleeve ?

Did you have a pinion snubber ?

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: JohnRR] #1374383
01/23/13 06:19 PM
01/23/13 06:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

What case was this ? 741 , 742 or 489 ? If a 489 did you use a solid spacer or the crush sleeve ?

Did you have a pinion snubber ?




489 case, solid spacer, and no snubber SS springs Just got off the phone with Richmond and because i got the gears from a friend and the receipt is gone, they will not help me...


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374384
01/23/13 07:07 PM
01/23/13 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Did you check/correct the pinion angle when you put those springs on ? Did the yoke hit the floor ?

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374385
01/24/13 09:07 AM
01/24/13 09:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Quote:

We have seen this quite a few times and have done it once myself.Usually it's overtorque that caused the problem.I assumed my airwrench would only torque to 150# wrong.I was left holding the yoke in my hand.Many assume the torque setting for a pinion nut is 240+# or as tight as you can get it with a 2 foot cheater pipe.There are varied setting depending on the pinion stem diameter and if it's straight or tapered.These specs can range from 125#ft to 250#ft.Always check with the manufacture for the correct setting.My thoughts are use a new lock nut,locktight and tighten as needed,you can even center punch the nut in several places to insure it doesn't back off.





Pinion nut was tighten to allow for the correct preload on the pinion with new bearings it was set to 20 inch pounds of rotation drag..




The pinion nut does not set preload.The crush washer if used or if its a straight pinion shims are used to set preload.

Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: B G Racing] #1374386
01/24/13 03:01 PM
01/24/13 03:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
6
65signet Offline OP
mopar
65signet  Offline OP
mopar
6

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We have seen this quite a few times and have done it once myself.Usually it's overtorque that caused the problem.I assumed my airwrench would only torque to 150# wrong.I was left holding the yoke in my hand.Many assume the torque setting for a pinion nut is 240+# or as tight as you can get it with a 2 foot cheater pipe.There are varied setting depending on the pinion stem diameter and if it's straight or tapered.These specs can range from 125#ft to 250#ft.Always check with the manufacture for the correct setting.My thoughts are use a new lock nut,locktight and tighten as needed,you can even center punch the nut in several places to insure it doesn't back off.





Pinion nut was tighten to allow for the correct preload on the pinion with new bearings it was set to 20 inch pounds of rotation drag..




The pinion nut does not set preload.The crush washer if used or if its a straight pinion shims are used to set preload.




My correction on the set up I used the spacer with shims to set preload


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: Ring & Pinion WOW! [Re: 65signet] #1374387
01/24/13 03:14 PM
01/24/13 03:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA

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