Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: BSB67]
#1370329
01/17/13 01:32 PM
01/17/13 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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LSA (or more specifically overlap)Does make a big differance in TQ and HP as well as RPM range. Tightening the lash will increase overlap as well as valve seat timing but not lifter seat timing.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: ek3]
#1370330
01/17/13 01:34 PM
01/17/13 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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Quote:
Quote:
My fault for not being clear. Subtracting the .032 and .028 lash gives an effective lift of .496 and .500 with my 1.5 rockers. Daytona poins out that the comparable hydraulic cam duration at .050 is 230* when you take lash into consideration. Now I need for someone a lot smarter than me (that's almost everyone) to tell me what the valve timing events are when you take lash into consideration. Andy Finkbeiner strongly recomends the MP .528 cam for street driven 4 speed strokers with manifolds. I'd like to mimick that cam with a hydraulic unit. In order to check myself, I need the numbers to plug into a calculator.
First off , subtracting lash does not change the lift - none - . that is a matter of the lobes max height x Rocker arm ratio. The valve timing events are only slightly changed by adding or subtracting lash. Generally speaking , you only shorten the ramp areas a little. If you want the solid cam in a a hyd. version , just have one ground , [if they dont make it]. the only real advantage to a solid lifter is that it wont pump up at hi rpms. ie; solid lifters can operate at higher rpms. some race style hyd. lifters can nearly get the same job done. if you really want to add power , add a hyd. "roller cam".
Adding or subtracting, loosening or tightening valve lash WILL change valve lift like it or not. Tighten the lash .010 with 1.5 rockers and your lift will increase .015.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: ek3]
#1370331
01/17/13 02:24 PM
01/17/13 02:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271 Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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Quote:
the only real advantage to a solid lifter is that it wont pump up at hi rpms. ie; solid lifters can operate at higher rpms. some race style hyd. lifters can nearly get the same job done. if you really want to add power , add a hyd. "roller cam".
FWIW, Mopar Muscle did a back to back dyno test of a hydraulic vs. solid cam in a mild 440. They went to great pains to make sure the specs were equivalent between the two cams and found all other things being equal that the solid cam made 30 more horsepower and revved out another 300 or so RPM on top.
Again, FWIW, maybe lame to cite a magazine test but I have no real world experience with stabbing different cams in and out of 440s then running them on the dyno since I don't have the resources to do that kind of thing.
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Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1370333
01/18/13 12:50 AM
01/18/13 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My fault for not being clear. Subtracting the .032 and .028 lash gives an effective lift of .496 and .500 with my 1.5 rockers. Daytona poins out that the comparable hydraulic cam duration at .050 is 230* when you take lash into consideration. Now I need for someone a lot smarter than me (that's almost everyone) to tell me what the valve timing events are when you take lash into consideration. Andy Finkbeiner strongly recomends the MP .528 cam for street driven 4 speed strokers with manifolds. I'd like to mimick that cam with a hydraulic unit. In order to check myself, I need the numbers to plug into a calculator.
First off , subtracting lash does not change the lift - none - . that is a matter of the lobes max height x Rocker arm ratio. The valve timing events are only slightly changed by adding or subtracting lash. Generally speaking , you only shorten the ramp areas a little. If you want the solid cam in a a hyd. version , just have one ground , [if they dont make it]. the only real advantage to a solid lifter is that it wont pump up at hi rpms. ie; solid lifters can operate at higher rpms. some race style hyd. lifters can nearly get the same job done. if you really want to add power , add a hyd. "roller cam".
Adding or subtracting, loosening or tightening valve lash WILL change valve lift like it or not. Tighten the lash .010 with 1.5 rockers and your lift will increase .015.
specs are ;lash set at .018 = 555" total lift, lobe is .370" rocker ratio is 1.5 =.555" total lift. add .018 in push rod to change lash, lobe is .370" rocker is 1.5 ratio, total lift =.555" lash is -0- ? also.
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Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1370334
01/18/13 01:12 AM
01/18/13 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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Quote:
LSA (or more specifically overlap)Does make a big differance in TQ and HP as well as RPM range. Tightening the lash will increase overlap as well as valve seat timing but not lifter seat timing.
lobe seperation angle is ground in to the cam .it can not be changed with out re-grinding the cam. lsa. controlls the effective cylinder pressures at a given rpm. tightening the lash will increase measured duration , however generally speaking, the lash only effects the gentel take up portion of the cams entrance/exit and not so much it's effective timing points. thus you have effective timing points that are most commonly but not always measured at .050 . [mabe if you changed the lash on just "one" of a pair of lobes] ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif)
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Re: solid flat tappet to hydraulic flat tappet comparison
[Re: BSB67]
#1370335
01/18/13 01:40 AM
01/18/13 01:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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Quote:
Right. But the question is when does the intake valve close.
looks like a small timing adjustment would have helped the hyd some. still i know the solid is a little better in the hi rpm zone.
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