Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
#1364434
01/04/13 11:09 PM
01/04/13 11:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Well, I think I've found the source of my vibration. Question now is: Where do I go from here? Some of you may remember, Motor developed a vibration after I had a converter baloon, and the flexplate bolts smacked the pan rail. Visually, I see no issues with the main webbing. Pics below are of the main bearing issue I've found. All the bearings look bad to me for a 3 year old, 5000 mile motor, probobly a result of the vibration that looks to be related to the #2 main, which is obviously fried, and it would appear that I shut 'er down just in time!
Weird thing is the bearing no longer fits in the saddle correctly. Both at the saddle and cap, the bearing will rock back & forth. When I pulled caps and the crank, all bearings stayed in place except #2. Cap half stayed with the crank when I lifted the cap, and saddle side did the same when I lifted the crank.
The mainline of this block was honed, and the crank was turned down from RB dia. to std. B dimensions (413 crank). bearings are cleavite P series. Motor always showed about 40 lbs of oil pressure at warm idle, and 60 while running from day one, and never changed a bit up until I tore it down.
My plan is to have the crank magged and checked out completely and see where that takes me.
Thoughts from you guys?????
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/13/13 01:06 AM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1364435
01/04/13 11:11 PM
01/04/13 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Caps with bearings.
5 4 3 2 1
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/05/13 01:46 AM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1364436
01/04/13 11:13 PM
01/04/13 11:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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close-up of saddle bearing. You can see the gap between the bearing and saddle on the non-tang side. bearing dia. does not match saddle dia.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1364441
01/04/13 11:56 PM
01/04/13 11:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401 Tucson, Arizona
MRMOPAR
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Looking at the #2 bearing in both the block and cap - I wonder if the bearing was mfg incorrectly. It would not appear to me to have enough crush to be retained correctly in the saddle/cap. Does another of your bearing - say #1 - have the same fit problem if placed in the #2 saddle?? If it also has the same fit problem - and - this block was honed - maybe that saddle was machined incorrectly. Also that much gap would cause a loss of oil pressure at the parting line.
68 RR 528" INDY MAXX
07 2500 CTD
Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1364442
01/05/13 12:04 AM
01/05/13 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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No oiling mods have been done with this motor. Perhaps when I rebuild, I should limit oil to top end (???)
I bought the block from a private party already cleaned and bored, then I bought pistons to match the .040 overbore. It had new plugs in all the galley's already, so I didn't re-check the passages. looking back, I probably should have had the machinist re-clean it. I had my machinist hone it, deck it, and align hone the mains, along with doing the crank.
Visually, the cam looks okay from what I can see through the bottom. But, I haven't torn the top end apart yet.
EDIT: The other bearings fit into the #2 saddle correctly. Its the bearing, not the saddle. I assembled the motor, and although I'm not a seasoned engine builder, I paid diligent attention to the details, and I'm positive all bearings fit well and consistent at assembly.
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/05/13 12:20 AM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1364444
01/05/13 01:03 AM
01/05/13 01:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,320 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Quote:
looking back, I probably should have had the machinist re-clean it. I had my machinist hone it, deck it, and align hone the mains, along with doing the crank.
Wait a minute, do I understand this? Are you saying that there was no block cleaning after your machinist did the honing and decked the block?
There is a lot of junk in that motor.
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1364446
01/05/13 01:15 AM
01/05/13 01:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
No oiling mods have been done with this motor. Perhaps when I rebuild, I should limit oil to top end (???)
I bought the block from a private party already cleaned and bored, then I bought pistons to match the .040 overbore. It had new plugs in all the galley's already, so I didn't re-check the passages. looking back, I probably should have had the machinist re-clean it. I had my machinist hone it, deck it, and align hone the mains, along with doing the crank.
Visually, the cam looks okay from what I can see through the bottom. But, I haven't torn the top end apart yet.
EDIT: The other bearings fit into the #2 saddle correctly. Its the bearing, not the saddle. I assembled the motor, and although I'm not a seasoned engine builder, I paid diligent attention to the details, and I'm positive all bearings fit well and consistent at assembly.
I've seen bearings loose thier crush due to debris, it makes heat, being forced in between the crankshaft and bearings Try slipping one of the other bearing shells into that location, top and bottom, if they are tight fitting, snug, it is the bearing shells that came out of there that lost there crush(preload), not the block or cap Do your self a favor now and buy a set of automotive long stem bottle brushes for cleaning out the oil galleys so you can clean them out your self I use a garden sprayer with cleaning solvent in a pump up garden sprayer to help clean all the motor before assembling it, especially after having machine work done get some stiff bristle brushes and clean, clean, clean and clean some more Engine assembly is like brain surgery, to me, it is impossible to keep it to clean
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1364447
01/05/13 01:27 AM
01/05/13 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Perhaps I miscommunicated what I meant. What I mean is that I don't believe he cleaned out the galleys. The block was clean when I picked it up, and I believe he cleaned it up after the machine work, but I don't believe he removed the galley plugs and brushed out the oil galleys. The plugs appeared to have new silicone around them when I bought the block, and it appeared that they were cleaned when the block was bored. I could be wrong about that, as I did not confirm the galleys to be clean. He very well could have done it as standard practice, but since he did not bore or assemble, I assumed he did only what I asked for. My bad, as I agree that I'm ultimately responsible.
I'll definately clean it out good, now!
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/05/13 01:35 AM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: Kevins493]
#1364449
01/05/13 05:11 AM
01/05/13 05:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Live & Learn, I guess..... Good news is that perhaps all I lost was a set of bearings and gaskets. Heck, almost sounds like a good trade for some worthwhile knowledge. And if the cause of this issue is in fact assembly "grit", I would consider that much better than what I feared.
I'm still leary of the crank, though. I'll have it magged and checked out and report back on what I find.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1364450
01/05/13 11:56 AM
01/05/13 11:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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I've seen guys forget to polish the crank and just as important the oil holes will need to be de burred chews a lot of debris out in a hurry and bearings go bad form there. then I've seen guys nick the crank on the main studs as they drop it in? buddy did it once and the bearings started looked to like that after a short break in he found the debris in his oil filter check then pulled the pan had to pull his motor back out. Around the same time A guy that works in my garage behind the house did the same thing! I found it after turning motor over a bit by hand and found my aluminum rods although clearing had next to 0 clearance when I pulled the rods low and behold the nicks where pulling debris off the bearings already and causing quite a mess and i had just been turning it by hand. Anyways little file to take nicks off re polish crank new bearings and all was fine glad I found it before i ran it! Next time I put plastic covers over main studs (crank girdle they are real long!) Anyway I would have kicked his butt but hard to kick your own butt! I'll bet it was one of the above and or the block prep. Check and re polish the crank clean the block new bearings and I'll bet your just fine!
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Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics)
[Re: Dodgem]
#1364451
01/05/13 12:10 PM
01/05/13 12:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,668 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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That #2 main bearing lost it's form due to overheating probably from lack of oil judging from the photos.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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