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Strange front brake dilema
#1320378
10/14/12 07:56 PM
10/14/12 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
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Hi All,
I just got a cap front end installed on my 67 dart street/race car....car weights 3120lbs without driver...it is the coilover and rack and pinion set up.I also changed the 73 and up disc brakes for a set of strange drag race brakes part # B-4160wc the car has the mopar performance aluminium master cylinder and a willwood adjustable proportioning valve the rear brakes are 10" stock drums.The problem I am having is on even the shortest trips the rotors get hot and they get glazed hot spots on them and the pads get real smooth from this...I feel the steering wheel vibrate pretty bad!! I had the rotors turned,new pads from strange and the proportioning valve turned all the way down.It still is doing this If i hadn't already sold the stock stuff I would just give up on the race brakes!! I taked to strange and they said the car is to heavy for this brake set up,and they only sell 1 type of pads for these calipers.
Last edited by 67446DART; 10/14/12 07:59 PM.
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: 67446DART]
#1320379
10/14/12 08:07 PM
10/14/12 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Do the rotors spin freely before you drive.... is the prop valve on the front brakes... open it all the way 
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: jamesc]
#1320381
10/14/12 08:29 PM
10/14/12 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
i realize this is of no help but that is a race brake setup and imho should not be used on any street driven car. i have the same setup for my dart which i hope comes in at #3000 or less and will be strip only. i'm surprised that they didn't say anything about street use when you called them.
I guarantee they said its race only.... I have the
Strange struts with the same brakes on my Rampage
and they said it many times but I'm running them
on the street but in a much lighter car
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: MPerry]
#1320383
10/14/12 08:38 PM
10/14/12 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
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i drove the car to a car show maybe a total of 8 miles never really got on it and didnt use the brakes hard at all.These brakes were on a project car I bought i put the brakes on my car and sold the car they came off of.Strange did say they are not for street use.What brake set up do you guys recomend?preffer them to be lighter than stock....i need to get this fixed....honsestly im affraid to drive it like this!
67 Dart GT 10.5,mild,446,727,906heads,minitubbed,leafs,caltracks,410's,3290#w/out driver,10:87
@123w/ a 1.53 60ft
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: 67446DART]
#1320384
10/14/12 08:46 PM
10/14/12 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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With the front end up do they spin freely... next, hit the pedal and see how long it takes to spin them again... open the prop up so the fluid can return
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: moparniac]
#1320387
10/15/12 06:26 AM
10/15/12 06:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 998
Clinton Township, Michigan
Dartin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 998
Clinton Township, Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi All,
car weights 3120lbs without driver...
Quote:
i realize this is of no help but that is a race brake setup and imho should not be used on any street driven car.
my car is 3400 with driver (I am 250)and they work fine for me! I posted this question a while back on the bullet and Larry Larson even replied and Jeff Lutz ran the strange brakes up front also (yes the thinner strange ones)If them 2 guys don't have issues with their 200mph street cars and "race only brakes"... something else is wrong with your setup 
go to 2:00 in the video. brakes look familiar. lutz is 3600lbs in that car also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xOOOh89a8
I agree. I realize that repeated braking on the street is not the same as stopping once on the track, but If it is doing this at lower speeds just imagine how it will be at race speeds.I run this set up on my Dart Sport with no issues on the street or track. Sounds like something is not right. Too tight wheel bearings, calipers not releasing, etc.
Randy
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: TheBlackCar]
#1320391
10/15/12 01:38 PM
10/15/12 01:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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The proportioning valve should be spliced into the rear brakes only, but with your setup I wouldn't even use one. Make sure the calipers aren't hanging up or the hoses coming apart on the inside. I wouldn't run a residual valve if the master cylinder is in the stock location. Also make sure you have some brake pedal pushrod to master cylinder free play. If it's too tight it will just keep pumping the brakes up.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1320392
10/15/12 02:36 PM
10/15/12 02:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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I had a simmular problem with a customers car that he wanted the race brakes on front with rear drums. Went through several sets of pads and some rotters in a short period. Took the rear drums off and put disc in back a problem was gone. The rear drums are not as effective as the front disc so you really load the brakes to stop putting a ton of heat in the fronts.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1320393
10/15/12 05:08 PM
10/15/12 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
The proportioning valve should be spliced into the rear brakes only,
I totally disagree with this... its there to SLOW the
fluid to the front brakes to keep the front tires
from skidding on a spike
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1320394
10/15/12 06:14 PM
10/15/12 06:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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Hey Raf we usually put them to the rear because when braking hard and the car nose dives the rears will lock up so you have to control that. allot of Chrysler m/c have a 70/30 f/r built in them already. If it is a big tire car we don't even use one.
Last edited by JAKE68; 10/15/12 06:18 PM.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: JAKE68]
#1320395
10/15/12 06:16 PM
10/15/12 06:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I have strange front and rear just straight hard lined in all around.
Mopar Performance
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: JAKE68]
#1320396
10/15/12 06:17 PM
10/15/12 06:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
OH
TheBlackCar
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
OH
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MP master cylinders were roughly 70/30 front to rear. Your putting the majority of fluid to the aftermarket front disc (better) brakes, which end up being the only thing stopping the car (ie reason for heat). Been thru this one a few times Good Luck
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1320397
10/15/12 06:19 PM
10/15/12 06:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
The proportioning valve should be spliced into the rear brakes only,
I totally disagree with this... its there to SLOW the
fluid to the front brakes to keep the front tires
from skidding on a spike
Although I respect your opinions, and you are indeed knowledgable if you read the DC manual it will tell you it reduces pressure to the rear brakes to prevent the rear from locking up first. That would create an uncontrollable vehicle. All proportioning valves reduce pressure to the rear brakes. If you don't believe me make a call to Strange or Mark Williams.
The exception to this is heavy trucks like semi tractors, they apply more force to the rear brakes because of the load they carry. That is what makes a bobtail tractor or an empty trailer more difficult to drive.
As I said earlier and has been stated above the rear drums are not as effective as the discs. The MP master cylinders already reduce pressure to the rear brakes so in this case I wouldn't even use one. The ports on the master cylinder are marked F and R for front and rear.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: TheBlackCar]
#1320398
10/15/12 06:21 PM
10/15/12 06:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
|
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,699
in a cattle trailer down by th...
|
Quote:
MP master cylinders were roughly 70/30 front to rear. Your putting the majority of fluid to the aftermarket front disc (better) brakes, which end up being the only thing stopping the car (ie reason for heat).
Been thru this one a few times
Good Luck
I think it's more like 60/40.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: TheBlackCar]
#1320401
10/15/12 06:42 PM
10/15/12 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
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Thanks for all the suggestions on this I am really getting frustrated with the car to be honest! I guess I should start at the begining and say I got the front end on including the brakes in question , I think there were about 2 or 3 turns on the valve at this point and took it to my local track 75/80 and made (4) 1/4 mile passes it did the same stuff I mentioned before.I took it home turned the rotors and put new pads in and turned the proportioning valve all the way back....this is where I am now.
car has stainless front lines on it.I keep the car at my dads place so the next time I get over there i will try some of your suggestions...Thanks all!!
67 Dart GT 10.5,mild,446,727,906heads,minitubbed,leafs,caltracks,410's,3290#w/out driver,10:87
@123w/ a 1.53 60ft
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: 67446DART]
#1320402
10/15/12 06:46 PM
10/15/12 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
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this is a link to pic's of my car if you want to see what it looks like... http://www.lbsr.org/DavesDart.html
67 Dart GT 10.5,mild,446,727,906heads,minitubbed,leafs,caltracks,410's,3290#w/out driver,10:87
@123w/ a 1.53 60ft
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: JAKE68]
#1320404
10/15/12 08:22 PM
10/15/12 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What you guys are reading in that 70/30 split is NOT the valving... its the volume of the reservoirs... if the car noses over then yes the rear gets lite BUT MOST of use have strong springs in the front and SKINNY tires... all the cars I have built with skinny front tires get the prop valve installed in the front lines to keep from locking up the fronts on a spike
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: moparniac]
#1320405
10/15/12 08:54 PM
10/15/12 08:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hi All,
car weights 3120lbs without driver...
Quote:
i realize this is of no help but that is a race brake setup and imho should not be used on any street driven car.
my car is 3400 with driver (I am 250)and they work fine for me! I posted this question a while back on the bullet and Larry Larson even replied and Jeff Lutz ran the strange brakes up front also (yes the thinner strange ones)If them 2 guys don't have issues with their 200mph street cars and "race only brakes"... something else is wrong with your setup
go to 2:00 in the video. brakes look familiar. lutz is 3600lbs in that car also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xOOOh89a8
interesting....what master cylinder are you using?
67 Dart GT 10.5,mild,446,727,906heads,minitubbed,leafs,caltracks,410's,3290#w/out driver,10:87
@123w/ a 1.53 60ft
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Re: Strange front brake dilema
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#1320407
03/16/13 05:23 PM
03/16/13 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
67446DART
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Manchester , Md.
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Ok thanks for all the replys....Spring is approching and I want to get my car going again! I am contumplating buying different style aftermarket brakes or going back to stock style.....in that case I will be looking for some of the stock hardware if you are reading this and have some of it message me!
I forgot to mention I still am running a (new) stock 73 duster proportioning valve as well in addition to everthing else above.
Thanks for your time all!
67 Dart GT 10.5,mild,446,727,906heads,minitubbed,leafs,caltracks,410's,3290#w/out driver,10:87
@123w/ a 1.53 60ft
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