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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: BloFish]
#1318931
10/11/12 07:06 PM
10/11/12 07:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.
Okay , Okay, It was a 72, who cares??    
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Sport440]
#1318932
10/11/12 07:11 PM
10/11/12 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.
Okay , Okay, It was a 72, who cares??
Oh... the drama... LOL
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: slantzilla]
#1318935
10/11/12 10:15 PM
10/11/12 10:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,125
Yes
sixpakdodge
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,125
Yes
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Quote:
Did Herb have his own Demon in '71?
Herb and Gale Mortimer built the Demon for 1972. In 1971, Herb ran one of the Sox & Martin '70 cars that was updated to '71 trim.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Sport440]
#1318940
10/12/12 08:24 AM
10/12/12 08:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,599
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,599
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.
Okay , Okay, It was a 72, who cares??
 Why not tell the whole story and spare us the BS. 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: tboomer]
#1318942
10/12/12 09:32 AM
10/12/12 09:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,257
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,257
aZLiViN
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Quote:
Well???? Everyone is waiting!! 
Maybe I won't go to work today so I can monitor this post and find out!!!! OOOOOHHHHHHH I'm so excited!!! 
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: J_BODY]
#1318943
10/12/12 09:48 AM
10/12/12 09:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 782
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 782
Southington Ct.
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This sounds like a game,
Let me guess, someone is trying to recreate the car for personal gain...
Allan G.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: BloFish]
#1318945
10/14/12 11:32 AM
10/14/12 11:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
DCM71cuda
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1318949
10/14/12 12:54 PM
10/14/12 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,765
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,765
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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Thanks for getting ahead on this, Herb.
Just as a side, that old 477 we got off you a few years back is still in Kevin's 71 Satellite, going 12.0's all the time. The motor is reliable, low, low maintenence, and constistent. It's a winner!! You guys did a good job....just thought I'd let you know.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: slippery440]
#1318953
10/14/12 05:12 PM
10/14/12 05:12 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I will take it!!!! Give me a price!!! 
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: ]
#1318954
10/14/12 05:13 PM
10/14/12 05:13 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Oh boy I am gonna be rich! Just as soon as I buy this car!!
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: ]
#1318955
10/14/12 05:26 PM
10/14/12 05:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#1318957
10/14/12 08:03 PM
10/14/12 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,037
The Grand State of Confusion-O...
SKR8PN
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,037
The Grand State of Confusion-O...
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...is it perhaps possible....that this cars existence could/would devalue the other S&M cars out there??
Perhaps that's why all the "stuff" about it not being a "real" S&M car????
Inquiring minds want to know the truth....
Throw it out there for ALL to see and let the MASSES figure out who's on first, What's on second.....
Karma has no menu. You get served what you deserve.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1318958
10/14/12 08:09 PM
10/14/12 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
DCM71cuda
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
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Quote:
I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about
What this is "all about" is a potential scam. When items are mis-represented to give an inflated value, it hurts the entire hobby. I see no value in getting random people to "authenticate" a car, when it would be easy enough to get the people directly involved to do so. I don't think anyone could accuse Herb of not wanting to talk or help out in such a situation. He is probably one the most accessible individuals in the Mopar world, and would have been involved in the construction of the car. Yet he was not consulted on this. That in itself should raise a red-flag.
David McCandless
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: DCM71cuda]
#1318960
10/14/12 09:57 PM
10/14/12 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about
What this is "all about" is a potential scam. When items are mis-represented to give an inflated value, it hurts the entire hobby. I see no value in getting random people to "authenticate" a car, when it would be easy enough to get the people directly involved to do so. I don't think anyone could accuse Herb of not wanting to talk or help out in such a situation. He is probably one the most accessible individuals in the Mopar world, and would have been involved in the construction of the car. Yet he was not consulted on this. That in itself should raise a red-flag.
David McCandless
So who is selling a car... never seen anything mentioned
in this post
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: DCM71cuda]
#1318961
10/14/12 10:32 PM
10/14/12 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,765
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,765
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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David, thanks to you and your brother for getting ahead on this. You are indeed right about your dad being accessible, he's never met anyone he didn't know. Great guy.
Whether it is a for profit scam or not, makes no difference to me. It's not the truth, and someone is attributing things that aren't factual for whatever reason. Ego, money, doesn't matter. Truth is truth.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Steve1118]
#1318962
10/14/12 11:40 PM
10/14/12 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,953
Olympia, Washington
tallzag
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,953
Olympia, Washington
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All fakes become real over time, that is the real problem. In the vintage race car field (specifically old NASCAR chassis') so many fakes are out there that it has hurt the overall value of the real cars. A lot of people have gotten burned and they don't forget that.
Rocket Restorations
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1318963
10/15/12 01:03 AM
10/15/12 01:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about
What this is "all about" is a potential scam. When items are mis-represented to give an inflated value, it hurts the entire hobby. I see no value in getting random people to "authenticate" a car, when it would be easy enough to get the people directly involved to do so. I don't think anyone could accuse Herb of not wanting to talk or help out in such a situation. He is probably one the most accessible individuals in the Mopar world, and would have been involved in the construction of the car. Yet he was not consulted on this. That in itself should raise a red-flag.
David McCandless
So who is selling a car... never seen anything mentioned
in this post
DCM71cuda posted a link to it above.
Here it is again,
Things are not always what they seem
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1318965
10/15/12 12:39 PM
10/15/12 12:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Ok, so based on what some have posted here there is some bad info in that write up. So, does anyone know the real history on that car?
The story was it was a S&M race car in '71, then sold to Reid Whisnant for the '72 season. Reid had a '71 built for him by S&M for '71, then had a new '72 built by Atlanta Race Cars for '72.
Look at the the side bars in the pics. There is one that runs high from the main hoop and down, right by the drivers head. This was the way Ron Bulter built his cars. Old pics of S&M and Whisnant cars don't have this high bar. The seller claims that Gary Hansen said it's not a Butler but it sure looks like one. Besides, Bulter was on the west coast where the car was found just makes it look more like a Butler. I wonder if they ever did talk to Hansen. The whole story is fishy, why talk to 2 former fuel racers (Big and Snake) about a PS car?
Just who is Dino Powell, the person that 'authenicated' the car?
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Race&Resto]
#1318967
10/15/12 02:06 PM
10/15/12 02:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.
From the text;
"Part 5
The Car Speaks for Itself
As a key part of the discovery process, Dino Powell got permission from the current owner to sand down the paint on the car. Old paint doesn't lie. Coat by coat, like turning the pages of a book, each layer of paint confirmed an era of the cars history. The 2nd to the bottom layer was a very unusual paint scheme, a bright gold and brown reflecting the colors of Reid Whisnant, the car's 2nd owner. The next layer clearly revealed the car's original owners... and the colors were... red, white, and blue... the insignia of Ronnie Sox & Buddy Martin. It was simple."
No pics of the sanded down paint are shown.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: B5 Bee]
#1318968
10/15/12 02:41 PM
10/15/12 02:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,687
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,687
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.
From the text;
"Part 5
The Car Speaks for Itself
As a key part of the discovery process, Dino Powell got permission from the current owner to sand down the paint on the car. Old paint doesn't lie. Coat by coat, like turning the pages of a book, each layer of paint confirmed an era of the cars history. The 2nd to the bottom layer was a very unusual paint scheme, a bright gold and brown reflecting the colors of Reid Whisnant, the car's 2nd owner. The next layer clearly revealed the car's original owners... and the colors were... red, white, and blue... the insignia of Ronnie Sox & Buddy Martin. It was simple."
No pics of the sanded down paint are shown.
Sanded roof picture.
http://www.found-sm-duster.com/part5.html
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#1318970
10/15/12 08:01 PM
10/15/12 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.
From the text;
"Part 5
The Car Speaks for Itself
As a key part of the discovery process, Dino Powell got permission from the current owner to sand down the paint on the car. Old paint doesn't lie. Coat by coat, like turning the pages of a book, each layer of paint confirmed an era of the cars history. The 2nd to the bottom layer was a very unusual paint scheme, a bright gold and brown reflecting the colors of Reid Whisnant, the car's 2nd owner. The next layer clearly revealed the car's original owners... and the colors were... red, white, and blue... the insignia of Ronnie Sox & Buddy Martin. It was simple."
No pics of the sanded down paint are shown.
Sanded roof picture.
http://www.found-sm-duster.com/part5.html
Any racer I know of would NEVER have that many layers
of paint on a real race car... each time I paint I
sand it back down.... paint is weight
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1318971
10/15/12 08:11 PM
10/15/12 08:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 872
NJ
SSDAcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 872
NJ
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B5- thanks for the link about the car. Very interesting story - I never knew Gary Hansen worked with Ron Butler. Explains alot. 
SS/DA 1924
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: SSDAcuda]
#1318972
10/15/12 08:15 PM
10/15/12 08:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,698
jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,698
jersey
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so who exactly, were the "experts" that looked at, and confirmed the car?
My guess is no one related to the car it self.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: OUTLAWSSAA]
#1318974
10/16/12 12:50 AM
10/16/12 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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it is bogus .Herb, Buddy and Chick DeNinno all agree to that .He used my pics of my car which is in the 72 form. maybe this email sent to me by Dave Christie will find it's way to him Quote:
I got an e-mail Saturday am about this with the pictures
I am not aware of Reid Whisnant ever buying a car from S&M other than the cars built for him in the shop
The 3 dusters are all accounted for
A photo in the article shows drum brakes on the front
Those cars all had the S&M front disc/aluminum hub kit with Airheart single piston calipers
First car started out with brakes from a 68 Barracuda factory SS (Kelsey Hays iron calipers and rotors-4.5 bolt circle) but was later changed when the new kits were made.
Someone from Portland Oregon called me a month ago and asked me about S&M Dusters and I assured him they were all accounted for. We talked about the cars and I asked him about the brakes, he said they were drums and I told him we never had drums on the front of A-bodies.
After that he didn’t want to talk any more
I’ve heard this for years now, people call or send you letters and photos and they will not listen to any thing that doesn’t fit their present situation.
They all have the “Milion Dollar Car” Dave
home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: hemiparts]
#1318980
10/16/12 07:04 PM
10/16/12 07:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Ok, so let's just comclude for a minute that it's NOT an original S&M car. It's obviously an ancient build, does anyone here know it's true history? Could it have been some other well known drivers car? Does anyone have a complete list of ALL of the S&M, Landy, McCandles, Hamburger, Groether, etc. cars (Hemis or otherwise?)
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: RV2]
#1318985
10/17/12 12:26 AM
10/17/12 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Which Hemi Fred corrected me but I thought this was the same car
RV2 I have that same book on the 1970 Pro Stock season. All I can tell you is yes mini skirts were definetly in style in 1970 !  Ron
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: sixpakdodge]
#1318990
10/19/12 01:05 AM
10/19/12 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
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Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930
fredericksburg,va
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Quote:
We did forget to mention this Duster of Ronnie's. This car is accounted for though, and not the one being misrepresented in the website. [/quote
I sure this is the one i saw, it only has Soxs name on the door. What year was this race?
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#1318991
10/19/12 02:30 AM
10/19/12 02:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 881
currently on moparts.
Race&Resto
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 881
currently on moparts.
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Quote:
Please show me one picture of a Sox and Martin car that had a Red Roof!!!! If someone can do that Ill buy the sanded paint otherwise I think Herb McCandless, Buddy Martin, Dave Christie, and Chic Denino, all SOX and Martin owners or shop employees have confirmed it is not a Sox and Martin shop built or team car. The workmanship is terrible, my 13 year old son could do a better job.
Herb Jr
I do have a picture of a Sox and Martin car with a Yellow Roof.
At first I thought it might be the old Shay Nichols Dodge that was a muti-colored car, and I guess no one remembers this red Sox & Martin Plymouth that was printed on those old Fleer drag cards, and if it turns out to be this car I charge a finders fee.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: Race&Resto]
#1318993
10/19/12 08:45 PM
10/19/12 08:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,125
Yes
sixpakdodge
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,125
Yes
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Quote:
At first I thought it might be the old Shay Nichols Dodge that was a muti-colored car, and I guess no one remembers this red Sox & Martin Plymouth that was printed on those old Fleer drag cards, and if it turns out to be this car I charge a finders fee.
That's HemiFred's car.
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#1318994
10/19/12 09:39 PM
10/19/12 09:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.
If this were solid red with a white sticker on the 1/4 that said footbrakeracing.com what would you say???/ 
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: streetking]
#1319002
08/26/13 12:56 AM
08/26/13 12:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 325
USA
streetking
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 325
USA
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: streetking]
#1319006
08/27/13 07:38 PM
08/27/13 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 806
Kentuckian
sixpakx
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 806
Kentuckian
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Quote:
Things that make you go, HMMMMM!
bigger wheelies this way
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#1319011
08/27/13 10:25 PM
08/27/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
Come to the McCandless Mopar Classic, there will be Sox and Martin employees there, Herb, Dave Christie, if you want something verified be there Sept 15.
 where is that going to be??? Im going to bring this ole 68 ...
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Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#1319013
08/28/13 03:55 PM
08/28/13 03:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
That is not true, Herb did not do the sheet metal work in that car, he built the Dana 60, and maybe some trunk floor pan work but nothing in the interior. I drove the car to a win at a Mopar day in 06 at Piedmont Dragway.
OK thanks glad to know that . who ever did the tubs, and sheetmetal was very good. I will try to make the McC deal on the 15th Rob
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