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Master cyl for 4 wheel disc #1303905
09/14/12 11:36 PM
09/14/12 11:36 PM
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mikesiron Offline OP
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do I need a larger MS to run 4 wheel disc. Right now I have the Alumunin 15/16 one and the peddle feels spongy. All 4 calipers are GM metric. This is a round track car that use to have disc front and drum rears.

Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: mikesiron] #1303906
09/14/12 11:45 PM
09/14/12 11:45 PM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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Try a 1" master, if pedal feels better but not enough, you have your answer. Tim

Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: astjp2] #1303907
09/15/12 08:04 AM
09/15/12 08:04 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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how big are the piston(s) in the calipers?

discs don't NEED bigger bores to work...again, it's all about piston ratio to create line pressure.

however, everything I've read says that discs require a longer stroke for fluid volume.

I don't quite understand this myself, since the pistons and pads sit up against the rotor and never retract, so you really only need to create line pressure, not move parts, with discs, but on drums they have return springs which pull the shoes back away from the drum, so when you hit the brakes, you DO have to move parts before you start making pressure and slowing down.


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Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: 70Cuda383] #1303908
09/15/12 09:51 AM
09/15/12 09:51 AM
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Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Quote:

how big are the piston(s) in the calipers?

discs don't NEED bigger bores to work...again, it's all about piston ratio to create pressure.





GM metric calipers are 2.38" diameter single piston. That puts the volume around 4.44.

I'm guessing the car stopped fine and didn't have a spongy pedal before? Also, how are you brake lines routed, through a distribution block or anything? Thanks


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: Uhcoog1] #1303909
09/15/12 10:41 AM
09/15/12 10:41 AM
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mikesiron Offline OP
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Yes it has the stock distrubation block, It was fine before I put the disc n the back. The pistons are 2.375 which is stock GM metric

Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: mikesiron] #1303910
09/15/12 12:50 PM
09/15/12 12:50 PM
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AndyF Offline
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The rear piston area should be 1/2 the area of the front pistons.

Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: AndyF] #1303911
09/15/12 06:13 PM
09/15/12 06:13 PM
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Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Quote:

The rear piston area should be 1/2 the area of the front pistons.




Andy-

Would the increased volume required in the rear cause a "spongy" pedal? Sure, it would probably increase the pedal travel, but cause a spongy pedal?

And I've got a secondary question on the recommendation for the rear piston area to be 1/2 the area of the front pistons. For the OP, would it not be just as good (or potentially better - matching the brake bias curve more closely) to plumb in an adjustable proportioning valve for the rear?

I believe a disc/drum proportioning valve needs to be "gutted" or removed when going disc/disc. I don't know enough about this- hopefully someone else can chime in.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: Uhcoog1] #1303912
09/15/12 06:49 PM
09/15/12 06:49 PM
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so ca
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mikesiron Offline OP
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Got it fixed. Bought a new MC for 1980 dodge its 1.030. Alumun with two hole mount. This is a dirt track car so I dont need much rear. Too much rear brake makes it loose going in. Peddle feels good now.I will find out (tomarrow) Sunday at practice if its ok. Thanks Mike

Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: mikesiron] #1303913
09/15/12 11:48 PM
09/15/12 11:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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To answer the question, yes, going with much bigger disc brakes on the rear with a disc/drum master, can give you a spongy pedal.

On my Dakota I went from stock disc drum to 4-piston brembos from a viper on all 4 corners. I left the stock disc/drum master the same.

I had a spongy pedal

Upgraded from the stock 1" bore disc/dr master of the 98 Dakota to the 1 1/8" disc/disc master of an '03/04 Dakota which was a bolt in swap. Perfect pedal feel.

I left the stock "proportioning block" with the "failed brakes" shuttle valve, and the stock RWAL system in place. Under hard braking the RWAL keeps the tail end happy and me out of trouble, since the 4-piston brembos on 13" rotors are more than enough to lock up the light rear end

I know guys who have done just the viper brakes to the front, leaving everything else in place, including the drum rears, and had no problem.

So in my case, yes, going to larger disc brakes on the rear created a spongy pedal.


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Re: Master cyl for 4 wheel disc [Re: 70Cuda383] #1303914
09/16/12 09:34 AM
09/16/12 09:34 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
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Thanks for the info! I've got vipers for all 4 (guessing the same as you) - 44/40 and 42/38. Also have a 15/16 manual master. I'll know soon enough if it's wrong I suppose.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course






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