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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: Dodgem]
#1301686
09/12/12 09:58 PM
09/12/12 09:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
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Quote:
With aluminum heads you may have to give your adjusters another 1/2 turn to 1 turn more of pre load to quiet tappets down.
Hydraulic Lifters
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: moparmarks]
#1301687
09/12/12 10:01 PM
09/12/12 10:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
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Yes Dodgem but he has 34* of initial timing and what I'm gathering is no advance?
Thats not going to work. Would think he'd have alot of pinging going on too.
I'm confuse on to weather he has mechanical advance or is locked out?? Said Mopar performance springs so at 1000 neutral idle it would be close to full advance.
wonder what he has at 2000?
He stated than the timing retarded 1-2* with rpm increase. Is that how a locked out distributor works? I've never ran one so you'd know better than me. The mechanical advance ones that I have ran usually had around 6-8* of advance.
FYI if I do hook up the vac advance it will effect the timing, dont know if that helps 
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: Dodgem]
#1301688
09/12/12 10:05 PM
09/12/12 10:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
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Quote:
Check the voltage at the coil key on.
then I would try the new coil
try advancing timing (turning Distributor clockwise) to see if it runs better??
It may be a slipped outer ring on the harmonic balancer or improperly marked.
What voltage #'s do I look for/normal...full 12 volts.
I am making a list here of all to do. Can I degree the cam in car?
Still unsure if I do all this with old plugs or new
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: moparrulzzz]
#1301689
09/12/12 10:10 PM
09/12/12 10:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,521
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,521
Western Colorado High Desert
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Quote:
Quote:
Check the voltage at the coil key on.
then I would try the new coil
try advancing timing (turning Distributor clockwise) to see if it runs better??
It may be a slipped outer ring on the harmonic balancer or improperly marked.
What voltage #'s do I look for/normal...full 12 volts.
I am making a list here of all to do. Can I degree the cam in car?
Still unsure if I do all this with old plugs or new
Think MSD's want 12v at their coils.
Can degree the cam in the car but may want to pull the radiator for more room. Will have to pull W/P and timing chain cover to do.
Yes new or if you have a plug cleaner then atleast clean the plugs til problem is found.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: RobX4406]
#1301690
09/12/12 10:11 PM
09/12/12 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 464
Detroit Michigan
stinger
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 464
Detroit Michigan
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Its just smokey, fresh motor smells in no way of burning oil.
The guy who built the motor opened the dist up and changed the springs and has it set at 34* total.
Vac. advance is unplugged.
How do you know this when you haven't even put a timing light on it?
Why is the vacuum adv disconnected?
And imo rOBBx4406 KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, more people should listen to him.
Sometimes I wonder why people bother to offer up anything around here.
Some people don't even have an idea of why idle timing is important. It's been explained numerous times around here and the disaster in waiting that is mechanical advance. Hey, if you want your stuff to run based on bad info from a performance book written in the 70-80's, go for it!
Two words for likely what's causing the OP's issue... TRANSFER SLOTS.
If you don't get why the idle timing and the amount of transfer slot is showing, then you don't understand the relationship of the systems on the car.
And, NO, engines don't always pick up RPM when timing is advanced. It's about finding the efficiency point of the engine at idle. You'll run into limits doing this, namely starter issues. I'll bet this particular engine could run pretty good with 22 initial and 34-35 total all in by 2500.
Pick your way to skin a cat. Your way, IMO, may suck, but, it's still your way. Grab that MP manual and follow the rotten way to time it up. More, or likely, less power to you!
I agree.4 corner idle,adjust the fronts and the rear blades.
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: BSB67]
#1301694
09/13/12 06:57 AM
09/13/12 06:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I think the pistons are in backwards.
Naw...I'm pretty sure the cam is in backwards. 
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: BSB67]
#1301695
09/13/12 07:05 AM
09/13/12 07:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
68KillerBee
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
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Quote:
I think the pistons are in backwards.
Thread started out good, but slowly has gone a million ways. I'm watching this, as I need to understand the basics of tuning also. Mainly on the distributor end of things. Thanks for all the good info and good luck to the OP 
I had been chasing a surging problem for a long time in my carb. Decided to get rid of my FBO coil for a blaster II and it fixed it. Or I just don't notice it since my new cutouts grab all my attention.
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: moparrulzzz]
#1301696
09/13/12 08:10 AM
09/13/12 08:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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take the plugs you have now and clean up nice one by one with your wife's tooth brush and gas blow dry and re use. (don't use your own tooth brush) Do again if you foul them again get the ignition right and they will clean up themselves. Think key on through the ballast is 9/9.5 volts. Check the in and out sides of the ballast for voltage too. There may be big resistance or poor connection coming through the fire wall When you put your msd in you bypass ballast. Hydraulic lifters need proper setting or they rattle without enough preload (or can hold valves open with too much) loose and noisy is better IMHO. Cam can be degreed in car not near as nice as doing it on assembly why in this day an age a engine builder would not do cam degree he should have been insisting it be checked takes 15 minutes to check before heads and timing cover go on??? bet he builds a lot of slow motors! Brand new Chinese balancers can have the keyway off by a lot kids over there don't know or care! But we get cheap chit  
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: moparrulzzz]
#1301700
09/13/12 08:01 PM
09/13/12 08:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Pick a direction and go with it. Like someone said, there are too many chefs in the kitchen. To me, sort out one system at a time.
I can't see the pics, but, make sure it's a fuel issue or an oil issue.
An MP orange box will usually have 6-8 volts at the coil. If you hook up the MSD, the box controls voltage to your coil.
At this point I wouldn't worry one lick about what your total number is. Set the timing at idle to 20-22* and get the carb idle issues/settings sorted out. You have a pretty large cam at 237* @ .050 so it's not going to be as easy as a stock cammed deal.
I never saw an answer to running the idle mix screws in, does the engine die?
Does the idles speed screw have any effect on idle speed? If you back it out does the rpm drop.
Remove the carb and look at the transfer slots on both primary and secondary sides. If the primary side is shaped more like a rectangle, open the secondaries very slightly, maybe 1/4-1/2 turn and shut the primary side down. A trick if you don't want to remove the carb if you can get in there is put a .006-.010 shim between the secondary set screw and the shaft stop. It's likely buried under the vac sec mech. Then shut primary down slightly.
If you have power brakes, plug the fitting at the intake. Take it out of the system and anything else vacuum related to isolate your intake tract.
Might not hurt to lower the float level about 1/8 turn on each end.
IMO, 70 primary jets are not close to big in this carb.
Cleaning up fouled plugs is a band aid.
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: moparrulzzz]
#1301702
09/13/12 08:55 PM
09/13/12 08:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Don't worry about the vac advance now. It's not something to be concerned with at this point. Was the cam degreed when installed or dot to dot? It may be out if not degreed. If the distributor is locked out, just time it for your idle setting 20-22* and start adjusting the carb. Check the rotor for movement. I think I mentioned see if it twist CW and that was wrong, it should advance CCW. If it doesn't move at all, then it's locked out. An old trick to keep initial in range to not drag the starter was to install a very light spring to keep mechanical from kicking in. It was just enough to keep the weights from moving out when starting, but, once fired, and up to idle RPM, they were all the way out, fully advanced. This may be what's going on with yours. Not my favorite approach. An MSD billet is easier to dial in than the MP stuff especially if it's an old model MP. Only issue with the MSD, is they don't provide a bushing large enough to limit mechanical advance to what you need. The new MP ones are a breeze except for springs. What's the idle speed in park? I'd expect that engine to be able to idle in park at 1K and about 850-900 in gear. I'd rather be working 7/12's than 0/24's
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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help
[Re: RobX4406]
#1301703
09/13/12 09:21 PM
09/13/12 09:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
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Rob Cam was not degreed, I can move the rotor CCW so this means I am not locked out. Shall I still drop the timing to 20-22*? I have a new MP electronic ignition in it right now. Shall I try to screw in the idle screws first to see if it will kill the motor like you suggested before turning back the timing, what about the rears leave them for now? Thnx again!!
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On to the next step 
Fuel fouled plugs are fouled because of fuel, not ignition timing 
