Post deleted by Defbob
#129756
10/01/08 11:06 PM
10/01/08 11:06 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: SCDaytona]
#129758
10/02/08 10:36 PM
10/02/08 10:36 PM
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Anonymous
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"Bulletproof" is one of those words that are over used by those marketing guys. Nothing is bulletproof. You have a combination, and you build it within your budget. You can throw tons of money at any trans and make it work, do you need too? I like to put my combo together, with less fabrication. I also like to keep a Dodge a Dodge and a Chevy a Chevy...Ok I'll get off my soap box now.
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: JohnRR]
#129759
10/04/08 01:03 AM
10/04/08 01:03 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
I just built one for a 650ish HP engine , but it's not the HP its the TORQUE that will hurt it , it wasn't cheap and I didn't go all out . A+A ultimate sprag $175 A+A Front Billet Steel drum $695 4 pinion planet with a steel spline front and rollerized $425 Red lined soild front Band $? Kevlar lined rear band $? Red Alto Clutches and Kolene Steels $? Teflon seals on front drum and input shaft $? Billet front and rear servos $180 Billet spring retainer for the front drum $45 CRT Low band apply reverse manual VB $275 4.2 Lever $35 HD front band strut $25 Modified stator support $90 Billet pump gears $175 I'm sure I missed something , I have to go thru the pile of receipts still
Sounds nice. What is modified on the stator support? or what is the benifit?
I plan to rebuild my 727 before installing the new 500" stroker, and I plan on using most of the parts you outlined above, except the valve body. I need a standard pattern valve body, and I haven't decided to go full manual or just use my stock valve body with a TF-2 shift kit?
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: Unknown_element]
#129761
10/04/08 05:03 PM
10/04/08 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI
dizuster
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Quote:
my 900.00 P/glide handles close to 900 hp now makes 8.50 passes and has over 200 runs on it. no high dollar stuff here
Fred, but your car has enough power to only need 2 gears. Put a power glide in most 600hp cars on this board, and they'll slow down...
Here's my list in terms of strength.
1) Bolt in sprag for strength/safety.
2) Rebuild kit, with good clutches and bands.
3) Reverse Manual valve body.
That's less then $500, and at this point you can make a lot of power on just those 3 things.
We ran our NSS 500" 10.50 car at one point with just that for 500 passes without ever even freshening it. And even before and after freshening it, the trans never broke (aside for a few converters...)
Now if you want more safety on top of that go ahead and put a low band apply valve body in it. But you don't need a low band apply valve body and a billet drum. One or the other covers you on safety. I personally would put a billet drum in it before the LBA because the LBA drives me nuts on the street. But if I were on a budget, I'd put the LBA in it and forget about it.
Beyond that, next strength mods can be planetary's, then pump gears, then billet output, then billet input. But you're talking mega power at that point.
Also, if you buy a valve body with resonable line pressue, you do not need billet servo's, billet pistons, etc... Unless you have a trans brake or LBA, the rear servo is only turned on in reverse...And even if it did break a servo at that point, all you have to do is take the pan off of it. Easy swap...
Band struts can easily be made yourself. Just a simple bridge on the back of it will suffice for strength. Pump mod's are right on CRT's website, and easily done yourself.
People run 904 stuff in 10sec cars all the time, and some of you guys are worried about a 727 at 600hp?
My
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: dizuster]
#129762
10/04/08 06:03 PM
10/04/08 06:03 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#129763
10/06/08 01:50 PM
10/06/08 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
I just built one for a 650ish HP engine , but it's not the HP its the TORQUE that will hurt it , it wasn't cheap and I didn't go all out . A+A ultimate sprag $175 A+A Front Billet Steel drum $695 4 pinion planet with a steel spline front and rollerized $425 Red lined soild front Band $? Kevlar lined rear band $? Red Alto Clutches and Kolene Steels $? Teflon seals on front drum and input shaft $? Billet front and rear servos $180 Billet spring retainer for the front drum $45 CRT Low band apply reverse manual VB $275 4.2 Lever $35 HD front band strut $25 Modified stator support $90 Billet pump gears $175 I'm sure I missed something , I have to go thru the pile of receipts still
Sounds nice. What is modified on the stator support? or what is the benifit?
I plan to rebuild my 727 before installing the new 500" stroker, and I plan on using most of the parts you outlined above, except the valve body. I need a standard pattern valve body, and I haven't decided to go full manual or just use my stock valve body with a TF-2 shift kit?
Check CRT site for pictures of it , I needed one in a hurry and bought it , now I modify my own . It gives a larger path for the oil applying the front clutch .
Depending on the power you may have to go to a RMVB if you stay with a 727. Talk to John Cope about what you are doing , he'll steer you straight .
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: JohnRR]
#129764
05/13/09 02:47 AM
05/13/09 02:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,273 Bern, Switzerland
6o4o
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Bern, Switzerland
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Thumperdart - can I quote your comment when you are with no legs in a wheel chair? Past year I saw 2 blown up 727, one was a friend that didn't listen to me for 2 years on getting rid of this no low band apply VB and stock drum.. this behind an about 600-700HP not blown 500CID on a light car. After he destroyed 4 (!!) ultra-sprags in the past 2 years he finally blew up the 727! Here the pics from last year: http://www.mopars.ch/discus/messages/29/13889.html?1215862256He just heard the drum spin up and pulled his legs before 0.1seconds later that 727 blew up and flew through the kevlar shield and the floor where he had 0.1 seconds before his legs... Same happened just 1-2 month ago at another race track here in Germany...driver was also extremly lucky! I also had already 2 727 behind a STOCK 383 and 340 with TOTALLY bend and destroyed sprag! The customer said it doesn't drive in D -> front drum spinning at 2.2x speeD! He just needed to try to drive and go over 4000RPM or so and also that 727 had blown up and this behind a stock 383 and stock 340! No need for 500HP! Even 250HP are enough!!! dizuster - EVERY 3rd 727 I rebuild is you know why?! Because people think they can install a shiftkit (TF-2 for example) without reinforcing the rear servo. 100 miles later they come to me because their rear band and drum is totally destroyed because of rear servo failure! That's the FIRST thing I reinforce when installing a shiftkit, otherwise I won't install a shiftkit, period. my 2 cents...
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: 6o4o]
#129765
05/13/09 07:03 AM
05/13/09 07:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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I Live Here
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Atco NJ
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: Otherlane]
#129768
05/13/09 02:43 PM
05/13/09 02:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
I brought a trans from joe at tranzact and he said it will be good for 950 hp but I know in the back of my mind that doesn't mean it will hold up.
Exactly , NOTHING is bulletproof , if you make something bulletproof someone will make a BETTER BULLET
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: cudabunch]
#129770
05/13/09 03:50 PM
05/13/09 03:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I'll give an example of just one of the 727's I've built mainly because I know it's history and what it's been through! I abused a home built 727 at the track and on the street for a couple of years. It was in a 425+ HP 440 and got driven way more than a strip only car and saw lots of heat cycles, block long burnouts, hard launches at the dragstrip etc. I used a Transtar rebuild kit with Raybestos clutches, a Transgo TF-2 shift kit, deep pan from a later model truck and a Neal Chance convertor. I pulled it apart to freshed it for the guy that bought my car and it looked PERFECT inside. The clutches hadn't even wore off the stamped in "Raybestos" or the date that was on them! It's now behind a 550+ HP Hemi in the same car and still bangin' shifts. A lot of it has to do with making sure the clearances are set correctly, everything is meticulously clean and you start with a core that has good hard parts to begin with. John's list makes me convulse when I think about how much people spend in the "trick of the week" when they really don't need it. Sure, if it's a full-on 700HP fire breathing animal you'd better do the upgrades he has listed but other than that....
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
#129771
05/13/09 04:21 PM
05/13/09 04:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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I Live Here
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Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: dvw]
#129774
05/13/09 10:16 PM
05/13/09 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,466 Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Posts: 30,466
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
For what its worth I've been building 727s for over 25 years. I have never had a drum failure. I've had a few rear servo failures in plow trucks.
I've used stock drums many times but can understand using a aftermaket unit for saftey. Has anyone ever seen an aluminum or billet steel drum explode? I have not.
Dittos to the above.
And as far as these rear servo failures ? ... it HAS to be these HUGE line-pressures that some of these guys are running.
A bullet-proof 727 ? ... as far as never a part failing ? ...I don't know who could ever GUARANTEE that.
Now as far as the trans BLOWING UP ? .... again - dittos to the above. Who here knows of a trans ever exploding with a billet steel or alum front drum ?
And .... who here can give a senerio of BLOWING UP a 727 .... even on purpose ? You certainly could-not do it under engine power. The motor could not RPM the trans high enough(even with a failed sprag)...... to make that aftermarket drum come-apart.
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Re: Bulletproof 727?
[Re: dOc !]
#129775
05/14/09 08:32 AM
05/14/09 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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The billet steel drums have been tested and they do not explode at the rpms they have been tested to , which are higher than most engines would ever overspeed too , the TCS drum distorts around 18,000 rpm , it's junk , the A+A drums has been spun over 20,000 rpm , maybe 24k ??? and has not distorted ...
Alum , I ASSuME they have been spun tested with similar results , stock drums explode because of the way they are made , a casting
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