Need 383 help BAD!
#1287313
08/18/12 12:08 PM
08/18/12 12:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
bb489ss
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
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I'm new here to this forum, so hopefully someone can help. I had a reputable shop in my area do a cam swap for me yesterday. My motor specs are as follows:
1974 Dart 1971 383 Magnum (9.0-1) ported 452 heads with steel shim gaskets Performer RPM intake AED 750 DP Cam WAS a Comp XE 268 hydraulic headers Dana 60 with 4.10. 2400 stall Mopar electronic ignition with MSD box.
I went with a Mopar .484 hydraulic. It was installed straight up per their recommendation. (I was thinking 4 degress advanced). I know it may be a bit big for my 383, but I figured with the light car, gears, good intake and headers that I would get some more upper RPM power. Now keep in mind my motor ran great prior to yestedray, no ignition issues at all. Well, I picked the car up last night after hours and this is what I found. It fired right up. Idle was not adjusted so it barely idles in gear. Upon slow accleration, the carb spits and car almost stalls. This happens at every take off. Then the car feels like it is running on 5-6 cylinders. NO POWER at all. Frequent popping from header pipes (sounds like a backfire, but not as loud.) My tranny which normally shifts around 2800-3000 RPM at cruise now needs to go to over 4000 RPM to shift!!! I finally limp it home and look under the hood. They removed the timing tape from my balancer and did not replace it! And the same oil filter was on the motor that was there before I took it in!! So I'm assuming they never even changed the oil, who knows? I was so tired last night that all I was able to do was verify that the firing order was correct. They claimed that they had to replace some of my "burnt" plug wires and that they were having ignition problems, but I never had any ignition problems until it was at that shop. So suffice it to say, I am very angry. I had a great running car that now runs like crap (my Corrola could blow my Darts doors off). The only thing it does remotely decent is idle, as soon as you drive it sucks. It literally feels like if you removed 2 plug wires from the motor and tried to drive it. I don't even know where to start now. (I will be dealing with that shop on Monday) but don't want to take my car back there. I don't trust them. I would appreciate any and all recommendations Thanks
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: bb489ss]
#1287314
08/18/12 12:29 PM
08/18/12 12:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,540 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,540
God's Country Maryland
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Double check the firing order 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2. Make sure the timing isn't advanced or retarded too much (distributor). Look for any vacuum hoses off. They may have got your cam a tooth off, did they degree it?
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: bb489ss]
#1287315
08/18/12 12:31 PM
08/18/12 12:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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it ran good with the comp XE then the shop swapped cams now it runs as described? I'm assuming they reused the timing chain/gears which'd eliminate that potential (mismarked gears). I'd turn the dampener timing marks to 15BTDC #1 compression then line up the magnet with the tooth that places the rotor under the #1 plug wire on the cap & retry it. They may have inadvertently retarded the cam but I'd talk to them before I opened it up that far. I would check the plugs/wires/reluctor gap. Holler how it turns out with them. EDIT they may have caused a vacuum leak at the valley pan
Last edited by RapidRobert; 08/18/12 12:33 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#1287317
08/18/12 12:42 PM
08/18/12 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Lots wrong here, 1st the old cam is a much better cam especailly for a 9:1 motor. Even when you get it going I doubt you'll see much if any improvement. 2nd take it back to the shop and demand it run right. Seems they probably don't know anything about older cars...at least mopars. The trans issues is because they dorked up the linkage, you will have to re-adjust it. Other than that YOU are going to have to start from scratch and TUNE it. You might need to also pull the carb and drop down the PV as the 484 will not pull great vaccum... if you need to know "how to tune" we can go more into details. Sorry for all of this. I think the best advise I can give is do it yourself. Not too many shops know how to work on older "hot rods"
NO WAY no how a 9:1 383 is going to have a clearance problem w/ a 484 cam. They just didn't want to degree it.
Last edited by Mr.Yuck; 08/18/12 12:45 PM.
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: bb489ss]
#1287324
08/18/12 01:47 PM
08/18/12 01:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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What else did the mess with maybe the lickdown linkage adjustment. Wonder if they plugged the vacuum advance into manifold vacuum to get it to idle many know nothings use this method to make a bigger cam idle at the expense of performance but it helps them idle well as it holds the timing up but when vacuum falls off as the throttle plates open the timing falls back too and the performance really sucks My honest opinion is the cam is retarded, the timing not advanced enough and maybe a band aid of the vacuum advance on manifold vacuum. and MR yuck is right on the PV number needing to be changed down. Also you could probably use a 3000 stall but you should be able to get it running much better than it is with a few tweeks!
Last edited by Dodgem; 08/18/12 01:51 PM.
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: bb489ss]
#1287327
08/18/12 04:25 PM
08/18/12 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,141 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,141
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
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Given that you got the car back running like crap, I would guess a bunch of things, most of whcih were mentioned here already. First, are you sure they broke in the cam properly? I assume hydraulic flat tappets. Did they use ZDDP additive or breakin oil? You may want to pull valve covers and look into the engine to see if you can verify you don't have wiped lobes already. It may be beneficial to make sure all the push rods are seated too. You didn't mention if you had an oil pressure gage and what it was reading. I have been able to pull lifters out using a small extension magnet (like Harbor Freight sells). You need to pull rocker shaft and push rods. The magenet fits into the push rod pocket and you can pull it out. Take a look at the lobe and bottom of lifter for proper wear. Do one at a time so you don't mix them up. I use the pick tool up to drop the lifter back into the bore and a thin wooden stick (marshmellow sticks in my case) to hold lifter back in bore while pulling magnet off the lifter.
Second, get the No.1 cylinder to TDC, verify timing mark, and pull distributor. The slot in the distributor gear should run along the axis of the cam. It may be off a tooth. You can compensate for that by rotating the distributor, but you will run out of timing adjustment as the vacuum advance can will hit the manifold or water neck before getting good adjustment. So getting it lined up is just good practice. With the slot orientated along the axis of the cam, the distributor rotor should be pretty close to No.1 cylinder on the cap (or 180 deg off, rotate as necassary). Some caps have two No.1s as mentioned. I think you want the one that is toward the cylinder head, not the one pointing towards the carb. If you have a manual (even a Chiltons) you will see what I mean.
OK, with that set, check the firing order on the wires and plugs. Sounds like you got it, but it never hurts to double check. At this point, I usually find an extra set of hands to start the car while I twist the distriubutor a tad to start the car up. I recurved my distributor to get me about 5 deg BTDC (IIRC) at 500 RPM, with full advance of 36 deg at 3000 rpm. I am not sure of initial, but I am sure of my full in. You will have to play with the distributor to get things initially started. Recurving is for another thread once you get this running.
The cam change will probably necessitate some carb changes. I'd think at a minimum idle misture screws and power valve. Once you get the idle and off idle set, go run it to see if you lean out to check main jets. Checking for vacuum leaks before making adjustments is key.
As I am mostly a pessimist, my guess is that your cam is wiped out. If they didn't change the oil (as you indicate by having same filter), I doubt they did anything to add proper protection on start up. And if its running like crap, I would bet they didn't run it in properly. Good luck.
Last edited by RoadRunner; 08/18/12 04:31 PM.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1
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Re: Need 383 help BAD!
[Re: Dodgem]
#1287330
08/18/12 06:19 PM
08/18/12 06:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,324 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,324
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
I just installed a 509 in a 383 for a friend dot to dot with a new mancini timing set was 114 so 8 degrees retarded form 106
Which 509? Did you verify the LSA?
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