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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#1247772
08/03/12 11:41 AM
08/03/12 11:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ratio is key. On center it's got to be infinitely better than our beloved 21:1 dinosaur.
Hmmm. Every Mopar PS box, late '50s thru the last B-vans, T/A-AAR option included, is 15.7:1. Look it up.
Rick
Rick, quit with the facts, would ya? The steering ratio of the factory power box is exactly why my son's Barracuda got power steering after the first autocross. It wasn't the difficulty in turning the car, but I could see his hands FLYING in the corners with the manual.
I still don't see $800 in value with the Delphi (ok around $1k by the time you get it in there).
 I have power steering in my Dart and it is nowhere near as tight as my 2011 Scion tC. Later on I'm definitely going to get a quick ratio pitman and idler arm kit.
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: PHJ426]
#1247778
08/03/12 11:32 PM
08/03/12 11:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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If it fits where a FF box doesnt,like BB A bodies,Gen III Hemi swaps,Early A bodies with headers etc. then yes it is huge. You B and E body guys have it easy so rock your FF boxes till the cows come home. Up to this point my only other option is little 1 3/4 headers or Alter K.
Last edited by 72Swinger; 08/03/12 11:33 PM.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: PHJ426]
#1247779
08/04/12 12:32 AM
08/04/12 12:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
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Quote:
A Mopar box with the fast ratio pitman and idler arm will net a 12:1 steering ratio 2 3/4 turns lock to lock and cost is $300 with no cutting.
Is there still an advantage to go with this box over the Firm Feel stage 3 or a stage 3+ box with the quick ratio pitman and idler arms?
It's NEW. Has new gears and all new guts. 40+ year old gears wear. No one makes new gears. Problem is, they don't wear uniform. They wear more in the center where the steering wheel usually is. You can adjust/rebuild the lash, but depending on wear it's a balance between too loose center and too tight when turning.
It weighs a lot less.
It is a better box with 40 year latest technology for improved road feel and feedback. Well regarded in the industry, they are current OE in some new Jeeps. Feels better. This is the box the circle track racers have all converted too, because of its weight and precision.
Also, the fast ratio pitmans will not work in A-bodies like mentioned before.
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1247780
08/04/12 08:10 AM
08/04/12 08:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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The box is NOT new, it's remanufactured. I suggest you reread this thread https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1 where Jeff from Borgeson discusses it. I prefer manual steering anyway and fast ratio arms do work on an A body, just not with any off the shelf headers I am aware of, except maybe fenderwells. Which isn't to say a set of custom built headers couldn't be fabbed, maybe even for much less than this new box if you DIY.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: Supercuda]
#1247781
08/04/12 09:40 AM
08/04/12 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
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Quote:
...and fast ratio arms do work on an A body, just not with any off the shelf headers I am aware of, except maybe fenderwells. Which isn't to say a set of custom built headers couldn't be fabbed, maybe even for much less than this new box if you DIY.
Fabbed headers for $800?? If still you need a rebuilt box, that's still $400 then add cost of quick arms.
Long pitman and idler won't work with stock or off the shelf headpipes for HiPo exhaust manifolds. Only time I've seen them work with stock ex manifold is from Cam and Pat Rittich with the headpipe very modified and hurting flow.
Do you have pics or know of another A-body with quick arms and stock HiPo exhaust manifolds? Auto or 4 speed.
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1247782
08/04/12 11:31 AM
08/04/12 11:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
Quote:
...and fast ratio arms do work on an A body, just not with any off the shelf headers I am aware of, except maybe fenderwells. Which isn't to say a set of custom built headers couldn't be fabbed, maybe even for much less than this new box if you DIY.
Fabbed headers for $800?? If still you need a rebuilt box, that's still $400 then add cost of quick arms.
Long pitman and idler won't work with stock or off the shelf headpipes for HiPo exhaust manifolds. Only time I've seen them work with stock ex manifold is from Cam and Pat Rittich with the headpipe very modified and hurting flow.
Do you have pics or know of another A-body with quick arms and stock HiPo exhaust manifolds? Auto or 4 speed.
Since I run Magnum manifolds off a Dak I can't say, never had an A body with the older HP manifolds. I did say DIY on the headers would be cheaper. If you guys can fab up a lot of the handling stuff you fab a set of headers shouldn't be out of y'alls ability, maybe a learning curve but still doable and less than $800. You are also being a bit disingenuous with the costs, you are running headers anyways, right? Why would you add the costs of headers to the swap if you are going to run them anyway? I can see adding the extra cost above a set of TTi's or Dougs if you have someone else custom fab them.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Delphi 600 Box
[Re: PHJ426]
#1247784
08/05/12 01:16 PM
08/05/12 01:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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I know this part is not for everybody. However, I've had my Dart 27 years and put a quarter million miles on it during this time. I have tried many parts and many combinations that I have used on the street, autocross and some track events.
Now I have my own shop - Bergman Auto Craft, I am trying to bring the parts to market that I believe in. My goal with my Dart is to have a durable, quality car that performs reliably in the real world, and can endure track events while running respectable times. I am not looking to make a race car here, just something that performs a lot better than one would think.
I have used every combination of FF and Steer and Gear boxes, and while both of these companies do a great job, they cannot overcome the 40+ year old design drawbacks.
The Delphi box is a breakthrough product in my eyes, because it is the first time anyone has offered a real alternative to the original part. This box will offer the sorely needed slightly faster ratio and infinetely better feel. I applaud Borgeson for taking on this project. I had proposed this years ago when I was at XV and got shot down. We were going to make a faster chuck for the stock boxes and the final cost ironically is the cost Borgeson has as their list price. I think its going to take a while before people feel the cost of the box is worth while. However, this WILL be one of those upgrades that go in the top 10 list I'm sure. I have several other products and combinations I believe in that will become staples on my site Bergmanautocraft.com in weeks and months to come.
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