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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#1246641
06/07/12 09:46 PM
06/07/12 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Very interesting post. I have only put about 300 miles on my car since finishing it and I am wondering if a stock converter would'nt be more fun to drive. I have a 540 ci hemi with 10.8 compression, 248/254 @ .050 roller cam, 3.54 Dana and 3500 stall converter. I used the converter after much discussion with one of the top trans builders for the 727. Part throttle is just "mushy". Full throttle is not even possible on street tires so what is the point of all of that stall? I will wait until I get a chance to run it at the track on slicks to decide to go to all the trouble to change it. No doubt the et will be better with the converter I have, but I drive much more on the street.
Dude you built a 540 cubic inch hemi what did you expect?
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1246642
06/07/12 11:22 PM
06/07/12 11:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Just calculated converter slippage for the 9.5" UCC in my car. I used a GPS speedometer app on my phone for speed. The Autometer tach is run off the tach output on the MSD box for rpm. I did not measure roll out on the tire. I just calculated circumference. There could be some error introduced in the calculation here. I used this online calculator to do the math: http://www.wallaceracing.com/converter-slip.phpAt lower speeds in third gear slippage is greater. All these are in third gear: MPH Slip 36 8.7% 50 4.9% 58 2% What is your slippage currently? It is pretty fast to grab a couple of mph / rpm readings and plug them into the calculator and make sure your chasing the problem from the correct position.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: JohnRR]
#1246643
06/08/12 12:29 AM
06/08/12 12:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Why did you not install the cam as it was before ? First thing I would do is put it back advanced, it will cost you a gasket or 3 and time .
It was more detonation prone when it was advanced.
The earlier intake closing gave me a 230 psi cranking compression! With the current "straight up" setup, (Actually 1.5 degrees retarded) the cranking #s are around 190.
Help me out here, am I to understand that dropping down to 2000-2200 stall would make the performance suffer even with an engine this big? If so, maybe I should look to swap in a cam that better suits my driving style. I get the overall theory: Too tight of a converter on a high strung mill is comparable to engaging the clutch of a manual trans right off of idle. I wish that I had a car lift. I'd just test a few converters just to know firsthand.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1246644
06/08/12 03:32 AM
06/08/12 03:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I run the Luppo Dynamic 9.5 street/strip converter and it works great behind my 493. It will flash about 4200 at the track but does not slip driving at all as it takes off normal with no slipping even when driving slow and I have a good size cam of 264 & 270 at .050 with around .630 lift. With the .509 you dont want to go to low on the stall or it might be a pig down low. I know alot of guys running high stall converters on the street that seem to work good for them. But as for me my 9.5 Dynamic works perfect for me. Drives like a normal car and has a decent 60 ft for a stock suspension leaf spring car. They are SS springs. Maybe you might want to call a good converter company like Dynamic , PTC , Turbo Action , ATI , Coan or any good know converter company. You get what you pay for in converters and the wrong one can really make a car run bad. Good luck , Ron
Last edited by 383man; 06/08/12 03:33 AM.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: 383man]
#1246645
06/08/12 05:45 AM
06/08/12 05:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Thanks to all who have posted with advice. Regarding these name brand companies, what kind of money am I looking at here? I paid $450 or $500 for the one in there now. It is hard to believe that a converter can have high stall and still be responsive at part throttle.
THAT would be nice.
Last edited by Frankenduster; 06/08/12 05:57 AM.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: 383man]
#1246646
06/08/12 08:20 AM
06/08/12 08:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
You get what you pay for in converters and the wrong one can really make a car run bad. Good luck , Ron
you nailed it there. I love my PTC and it matches my Duster's combo perfectly. Drives perfectly on the street and comes alive at the track. Lowered cruising RPM by a couple hundred too.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1246647
06/08/12 08:58 AM
06/08/12 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Why did you not install the cam as it was before ? First thing I would do is put it back advanced, it will cost you a gasket or 3 and time .
It was more detonation prone when it was advanced.
The earlier intake closing gave me a 230 psi cranking compression! With the current "straight up" setup, (Actually 1.5 degrees retarded) the cranking #s are around 190.
Help me out here, am I to understand that dropping down to 2000-2200 stall would make the performance suffer even with an engine this big? If so, maybe I should look to swap in a cam that better suits my driving style. I get the overall theory: Too tight of a converter on a high strung mill is comparable to engaging the clutch of a manual trans right off of idle. I wish that I had a car lift. I'd just test a few converters just to know firsthand.
the 509 is not designed for the street. It is a bracket racing cam. It likes to work from about 3500-6500+. There are much better cam designs if you are going to be driving around a lot. What is lazy anyway? If you dead stomp the car it should either explode the tires or take off....any "high" stall converter is going to be a tad "loose" under normal driving conditions.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1246648
06/08/12 09:29 AM
06/08/12 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why did you not install the cam as it was before ? First thing I would do is put it back advanced, it will cost you a gasket or 3 and time .
It was more detonation prone when it was advanced.
The earlier intake closing gave me a 230 psi cranking compression! With the current "straight up" setup, (Actually 1.5 degrees retarded) the cranking #s are around 190.
Help me out here, am I to understand that dropping down to 2000-2200 stall would make the performance suffer even with an engine this big? If so, maybe I should look to swap in a cam that better suits my driving style. I get the overall theory: Too tight of a converter on a high strung mill is comparable to engaging the clutch of a manual trans right off of idle. I wish that I had a car lift. I'd just test a few converters just to know firsthand.
the 509 is not designed for the street. It is a bracket racing cam. It likes to work from about 3500-6500+. There are much better cam designs if you are going to be driving around a lot. What is lazy anyway? If you dead stomp the car it should either explode the tires or take off....any "high" stall converter is going to be a tad "loose" under normal driving conditions.
Remember he has the cam in a 500" engine , the extra cubes should move that rpm range down.
Wordmiester, just because you 500 for the convertor doesn't mean it's any good. Torque convertor science is voodoo. In the hotrod diesel pickup market a number of companies were taking stock convertors and cutting them open , machining the cast alum down smaller to lower the stall ($35 operation) put a fresh clutch lining in them and selling them for $1000.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: JohnRR]
#1246649
06/08/12 10:09 AM
06/08/12 10:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Give Scott at Competition components a call. Tell him what you have and then tell him what you want to do with the car. Cam and converter technology hs changed alot since my mother use to buy me plaid pants when I was a kid in the Seventies....... Scott Brown email is scotty.brown@ymail.comHis business is Competition Components. www.buyracingparts.comTell him Paul from Chicago sent you. 
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: JohnRR]
#1246650
06/08/12 11:03 AM
06/08/12 11:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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Yah I'd say. I bought a Debs (iirc) converter that flashed something fierce, but felt way to slippy for me.. and I mean alot slippy. Replaced it with a B&M holeshot and right off the hop went 6/10ths faster, and much less slippy, but still a tad slippy. Opened the Debs converter and found every other fin cut off  The price was about the same for both. Next time I'll just find a stock Vega converter, change the hub, weld the ring gear on all for about a $150 and see how that flys 
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: PHJ426]
#1246651
06/08/12 11:48 AM
06/08/12 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
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Hey Paul, Where's that smoky video?  That motor was/is a real thumper, probably Didn't even notice you swapped gears from 4.30 to 2.94's  I'll bet you could hook a 32 foot travel trailer behind it and not bog it down. Loved that old 508! 
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: Streetwize]
#1246652
06/08/12 12:08 PM
06/08/12 12:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Hey Bobby,
Ill have to get a video of my boiling the hides with the 2:94 now. I really wanted to get the car to the track to document what it did with the old 4:30 and Drag Radials vs the 2:94 and new XHD leafs.
But the few times I could have made it out the weather was not cooperating and the track was rained out a few weekends earlier this year.
Before with the 4:30 gear I was shifting in a second or two off the line the 508 was at 6000 plus........Now it takes a few seconds to get to 6000 in first but it makes the car much more street-able and I like driving faster than 45mph...
And what it does for the car on the highway, impressive!
The 508 is a torque monster it moves this 4000 pounder around well, with a nice fat area under the curve gotta love Integrals!!!! Speaking of that its back to night class next week, Circuits II and lab for an 8 week stint.
Here is the new look.
Last edited by PHJ426; 06/08/12 12:10 PM.
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: PHJ426]
#1246653
06/08/12 12:49 PM
06/08/12 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Nothing "squishy" about a GOOD converter. Efficiency is key, most cheap converters aren't that efficient, a tight lower stall converter is more likely to be efficient. Just the nature of the beast.
My 8" will flash to 4700, and will drive itself around at idle all day.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: Lazy performance with High stall converters...
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1246655
06/08/12 08:32 PM
06/08/12 08:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
my PTC was around 450 plus the ride. bought it on the advice of dustergirl (up above) and will of course hold her responsible if i don't like it! 
UH OH! Man, if you don't like it I'd be surprised. We have two PTC's and they've worked flawlessly. Mine has been in my car for 7 years now.
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