Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: turner]
#1231920
05/11/12 11:20 PM
05/11/12 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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I wouldn't have it at 37 on motor with 93, but that's just me, I guess.
I've never run that small of a hit either...32, a couple gallons of race gas and jet up after the first hit.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: fasthawk6]
#1231923
05/12/12 12:08 PM
05/12/12 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Turner, I was refering to jetting up the nitrous, because a 100 hit on a low 11 Big block will seem pretty tame. It should give you the required 10.XX time slip you desire, however.
I wouldn't worry about a retard system at this point, but if you fall in love with the spray, and get a big-shot plate and want a 9 sec time slip, then I'd consider it.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1231924
05/12/12 01:18 PM
05/12/12 01:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Nitrous is not for the lazy...
I would retard the timing regardless of what the instructions say and sneak back up on the total number that it runs best. Just do it manually to start with if you don't have a retard module, etc. Detonation is a KILLER with n2o tune ups. What's it gonna hurt if you back out 4 degrees and see how it runs for MPH? Then add 2 back and see MPH again. If it slows down, as long as everything is constant, you know you went a bit too far. Get back to your original total number no biggie, BUT, you didn't risk smoking something because it had too much to start with.
Jetting on your carb will not change. You adjust the nitrous/fuel pills to keep things happy and in tune. You can also tweak it raising or lowering fuel pressure in a pinch. Fat tune up is bad too... don't believe the fat is good/safe crowd.
Most of us have some decent money in our engines. Whether it's 1,000 or 20,000, cooking it because you went too far from the start seems risky to me. Call me conservative, I'll err on the safe side and sneak up, than balls out and dead!
Good luck with it.
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: turner]
#1231925
05/12/12 01:23 PM
05/12/12 01:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
When you say "jet it up", are you changing the primary and secondary jetting? I currently have 75 in the mains and 78 in the secondaries....how many jet sizes should I go up with the 100 shot and how much more timing and jetting if I put the 150 shot to it, the system is the NOS Powershot. Should I be pulling my timing with a timing light and locking the distributer where I see fit or should I buy a timing computer.....money really isnt that big of a deal, swapping out chips instead of messing with my distributer seems easier and way more precise......any input on wich timing computer, I have all MSD now.
When NOS guys say jet up there usually talking about the fuel jet in the NOS system, not the carb. If your carb. is jetted good now leave it alone, jet up or down the NOS system gas side jet
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1231926
05/12/12 09:49 PM
05/12/12 09:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Don't know what they gave you for a 100HP tuneup but NOS used to give some bad advise. There tuneups were dead rich and they were slow to tell you to take timing out. What this causes is detonation with fuel puddling. At 100 HP you can get away with a bad tune but why would you want to.
For a 100HP shot I would run a .053 nitrous pill. Depending on fuel pressure for the fuel pill but, a maximum of .047 with 6 psi of fuel pressure. If you have something in the low .04's or maybe even a .038 may be necessary to get a good tune.
Like someone else said 37 degrees of timing is a lot. Most of these engines will run better at 32 degrees. Roll the timing back to 30 if doing it with a retard box. This should be safe. If you get a retard box keep pulling timing until the car slow down. Tune for MPH sense this is the best observation of HP.
Contrary to popular belief. Lean is Mean and fat will hurt the health of your engine. So if it is lazy and your buddies tell you to add timing they are probably full of bull. Try a smaller fuel jet or lower fuel pressure to the nitrous fuel soleniod. Please watch your bottle pressure if you do not have at 850 it aint going to run. You should shoot for 925 PSI or better yet buy a cheap Harbor Freight temp gun and get the bottle to 92 degrees temp. This will provide the necessary pressure.
Happy spraying.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: Leon441]
#1231927
05/13/12 10:48 AM
05/13/12 10:48 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 399 metro detroit
turner
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 399
metro detroit
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Thamks for all the advice guys, I truly appreciate it! I had the car dyno tuned , so I feel that the carb tune-up is right on. I have installed the pills as suggested by NOS for the 100horse shot and that is a 47N/53F. I have a 6AL so instead of buying components for that old style system I think ill just manually retard the timing. I do not have an assortment of fuel pills, is that something that I should purchase? As far as my fuel system goes, I have the Holley "HP150" billet pump. that states its 140gph@16psi or up to 900 horses...I have -8 line feeding the engine dead-headed with 7 pounds to the carb and I have put a tee below the carb. reg to tap the fuel line and installed another regulator for the nitrous and set it at 6 pounds, I also have a low pressure swith in the line b4 any regulators and its set at 5 lbs., does anybody think when my fuel bowls need more fuel and the floats open that my main fuel line will go below 5lbs......that is the question I have tried to post some questions on Yellowbullets nitrous tech with induction solutions, but I cannot register, they must have all the users the want. I tried to buy a system from Monte but after sending 3 email requests for info and getting no responses I had to go another direction and that is why I chose a NOS system
Last edited by turner; 05/13/12 10:57 AM.
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: turner]
#1231929
05/13/12 11:42 AM
05/13/12 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491 Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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Quote:
......I tried to buy a system from Monte but after sending 3 email requests for info and getting no responses I had to go another direction and that is why I chose a NOS system
That's odd.......It must have been going to junk mail.......He's really good about replying to emails and texts.......Hit him up tomorrow with a text or give him a call...256-783-3418
If it were me......52 nitrous jet is about 150hp....I'd put a 42 fuel jet with it at 5psi FLOWING...at least 100 octane fuel....and -8NGK plugs......I'd put the timing at 25* and work from there.........Keep leaning it out 2-3 numbers with the fuel jet until it stops gaining trap speed.....once that tops out, put timing into it 1 degree at a time until it stops gaining trap speed......you'll end up somewhere around 27*-30* depdending on what your quench is.......
If you want to run the 47 nitrous jet, start with a 37 fuel jet at 5psi......28* degrees timing.....stock plugs and pump gas will be fine.....start leanging it out from there and then creep timing back in 1 degree at time......you'll end up around 30-34*, depending on quench.......You want to run as little fuel and timing as possible to make it MPH the best......
Like mentioned, using a temp gun and setting the bottle temp at 92* is best.....using a water bath is a HUGE help.....The bottle needs to be a UNIFORM 92*........
Like already mentioned, too rich and too much timing are piston killers.......so, you need to get the tune CLEAN and then put timing into it.....As long as it doesn't detonate, you won't hurt it......There are three things that make a motor detonate.........Not high enough octane fuel for the cylinder pressure your motor makes, oil getting into the combustion chamber either past the rings, guides or intake gasket, or too much timing.........
Having said that, Monte can get you there much faster than doing it that way.....
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: turner]
#1231931
05/13/12 02:07 PM
05/13/12 02:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Thamks for all the advice guys, I truly appreciate it! I had the car dyno tuned , so I feel that the carb tune-up is right on. I have installed the pills as suggested by NOS for the 100horse shot and that is a 47N/53F. I have a 6AL so instead of buying components for that old style system I think ill just manually retard the timing. I do not have an assortment of fuel pills, is that something that I should purchase?
As far as my fuel system goes, I have the Holley "HP150" billet pump. that states its [Email]140gph@16psi[/Email] or up to 900 horses...I have -8 line feeding the engine dead-headed with 7 pounds to the carb and I have put a tee below the carb. reg to tap the fuel line and installed another regulator for the nitrous and set it at 6 pounds, I also have a low pressure swith in the line b4 any regulators and its set at 5 lbs., does anybody think when my fuel bowls need more fuel and the floats open that my main fuel line will go below 5lbs......that is the question
I have tried to post some questions on Yellowbullets nitrous tech with induction solutions, but I cannot register, they must have all the users the want. I tried to buy a system from Monte but after sending 3 email requests for info and getting no responses I had to go another direction and that is why I chose a NOS system
I Have a freind who has emptied many big 15 lb NOS bootles and burnt up a bunch of parts learning how to go fast with NOS, make your fuel jet the same size as your NOS jet to start with As far as the needles and seast put the biggest ones you can get in it, .120 vitons work well Set the fuel pressure a little lower with the bigger neeldes and seats, I use 5.5 lbs now with the .120 instead of 7.5 lbs with the .110 My car was running out of fuel with the .110 at 7.5 lbs, switch to the .120 at 5.5 lbs and the car slowed down due to being to rich, lean the jets down and the car ran a new best Test, test and then test some more
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1231932
05/13/12 02:31 PM
05/13/12 02:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
make your fuel jet the same size as your NOS jet to start with
Only if you want a rich tune up out of the box with recommended fuel pressures for the system. If you have a wideband O2 sensor it will help a bunch!
Follow what Big Squeeze said and you'll be good. Want a 100 shot, about a .047 n2o jet and something in the .037-.040 fuel jet. Ask Monte if you get hold of him about a good baseline jet package. Even the new/revised kit recommendations are still fat. The old 150hit n2o/F was .063/.071, new is .063/.063. The new 100 hit is .047/.047, still fat. A general guideline is if your fuel jet is same or larger than you n2o jet, it's a FAT tune up.
I'm might be doing a 100 shot on my car and it's going to be .047/.039 to start with as far as plate jetting with 6PSI fuel pressure. If I jump to a 150, .063/.053 to start.
Why I wrote bump timing it 2* at a time, must have had setting initial on my mind... Do 1* at a time. I think NOS says 2* per 50hp and then an additional 2* safety margin. Better to take a bunch of timing out and not hurt it than not enough and cayse issues. Just like the plate jetting, sneak up on the best combination.
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: RobX4406]
#1231933
05/13/12 03:27 PM
05/13/12 03:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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For the guy who wants to get 100HP NOS with dual carbs in Peru.
The tuneup is pretty close to the cross plate which has two spray bars. I ran one for a second stage with the fogger I had. .036 Nitrous jets .032 fuel worked good for me with 5.5 lbs of fuel pressure to the system.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1231935
05/13/12 07:41 PM
05/13/12 07:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Great post, and good info Wish Id read it several years ago. Window switch or controller is a nice add on is all I can add vs a micro switch (they can stick). But if you have an older 6al, the 3 stage retard is a nice unit. Some of us are hard headed (stupid) and learn the hard way. Never rush the adjustments and make sure all is working properly. Nitrous is a great power adder after you learn the ins and outs. This was all avoidable, 100% human error on my part. But only took some paint work, a tear down and alot of parts magged and six boosters in the carbs. And a new set of muffs, just the guts were tossed out. Not an issues since....because I no longer rush and inspect the system prior to every use. And I only spary on the streets 1/10 as much as I used to. http://s1117.photobucket.com/albums/k589...rent=RTWEB1.mp4
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Re: Nitrous tune question
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1231938
05/14/12 01:29 AM
05/14/12 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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I tend to jet for a fat tune-up, that way when the t-d line from my carter mechanical starts running out of pressure at 900ft, I can still make the finish line with the spark-plugs and head gaskets intact.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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