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What if a coil was hooked up backwards #1206502
03/30/12 02:44 PM
03/30/12 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
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B G Racing  Offline OP
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Eighty Four, PA
I was just asked this question and didn't have an answer.Has anyone had the experience and what happened?

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: B G Racing] #1206503
03/30/12 02:48 PM
03/30/12 02:48 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

I was just asked this question and didn't have an answer.Has anyone had the experience and what happened?


Seems like I've seen it done, don't remember if it ran or not A coil is a step up transfomer so when you wire it backwards it probally becomes a step down transformer, which may not make enough spark to light the spark plugs I don't have any motors that don't have electronic ignition on them so I'm a little leary of trying it for fear of burning up the ECU box


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: Cab_Burge] #1206504
03/30/12 02:53 PM
03/30/12 02:53 PM
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The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic Offline
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The Pale Blue Dot
It will work, but the max output is lower, and looks funny on a scope.

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: Cab_Burge] #1206505
03/30/12 02:54 PM
03/30/12 02:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 214
Colo Springs, CO
DconD100 Offline
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Colo Springs, CO
Can't tell you how many times over the years I have seen them hooked up backwards. They run fine, but don't make max spark. I switch them to the correct positions and don't notice any difference. I assume that it does some damage to the coil from running it backwards, but don't really know for sure. I always put a Jacobs coil on everything eventually anyway.


Pump Gas Small Blocks Rock! 11.53 @ 116mph E85 408 at 8500 ft da, 3605 pound truck, 3.91s, street driven
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: DconD100] #1206506
03/30/12 03:11 PM
03/30/12 03:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,132
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

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Posts: 21,132
Niles , Ohio
I saw some backwards also.On the scope the pattern is reversed.Our scope also showed max output voltage.It pretty much showed the same as when hooked up correct.Kind of freaks you when you see the patterns upside down the first time.Never saw one that didnt run when it was wrong.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: therocks] #1206507
03/30/12 03:23 PM
03/30/12 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,264
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
These replies are correct, it still works but shows an upside down pattern on the scope, if you still have one of those stone age machines. Any way the more important question is do electrons flow from positive to negative or is it really the reverse? There are a lot of thoughts on this but yet all the positive ground cars were electrical pieses of poo, but that could have just been because Lucas did the electrical on them. lol

It's like the old joke, Do you know why the British drink their beer warm? Because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

You old timers will get it, you young guns may not.


"Come get your wife"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: Guitar Jones] #1206508
03/30/12 03:45 PM
03/30/12 03:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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Quote:

These replies are correct, it still works but shows an upside down pattern on the scope, if you still have one of those stone age machines. Any way the more important question is do electrons flow from positive to negative or is it really the reverse? There are a lot of thoughts on this but yet all the positive ground cars were electrical pieses of poo, but that could have just been because Lucas did the electrical on them. lol

It's like the old joke, Do you know why the British drink their beer warm? Because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

You old timers will get it, you young guns may not.



i DO have an old 'scope. a big one. too bad it's a marquette, and not a sun. and about the lucas electronics, we never could keep the smoke inside. it always got out, eventually.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: maximum entropy] #1206509
03/30/12 04:41 PM
03/30/12 04:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 117
Muskegon Mi
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dcr Offline
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Muskegon Mi
Just ran into this on a studebaker Im working on for my dad which is 6 volt pos ground When switching to neg ground it is recommended to reverse wires as it will cause accelerated point damage if not.

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: B G Racing] #1206510
03/30/12 05:07 PM
03/30/12 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Car would start, but didn't run well...

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: BradH] #1206511
03/30/12 05:15 PM
03/30/12 05:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
It will reduce the life of the coil... the 2 different
windings also have different size wires and the thin
wires dont last all that long

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1206512
03/30/12 05:52 PM
03/30/12 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Balt. Md
Yep it gives a weaker spark. Dont you guys remember the old pencil trick in the older Motor Manuals to tell if the coil polarity is wrong ? Ron

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: 383man] #1206513
03/30/12 06:01 PM
03/30/12 06:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 621
Iowa
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coronetville Offline
mopar
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Iowa
?TAHW

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: B G Racing] #1206514
03/30/12 08:16 PM
03/30/12 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 550
Camp Point, IL
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gofish Offline
mopar
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Camp Point, IL
It depends a lot on what the system is built like. Old points ignition systems had a capacitor that charged up as the points were open and when the points closed the capacitor (called condenser in those days) discharged through the coil, pulsing the coil primary inducing the current into the coil secondary causing the high voltage spark. If the points and capacitor w ere on the ground side of the coil, the inductance and resistance of the primary winding could be enough to keep the capacitor from charging up as high as if it were on the positive side of the coil. I have not looked at newer systems enough to guess if the same principle applies or not, but a coil is not a polarized device by itself, but supporting parts may be.
A car coil is actually a transformer, two separate windings, primary (low voltage in this case) and secondary (high voltage in this case). The transformer can be wired as a step up or step down, depending on the need.
If you tried to apply the low voltage into the high voltage secondary, then you would get very low voltage out of the coil primary and not have enough voltage to ever jump the gap on a plug. An older ignition system would have about 20,000 volts out of the coil secondary and if you pulsed the 12 VDC to the high voltage side of the coil, the output on the low voltage side would be very low, in the .0075 VDC range.

Danny

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: gofish] #1206515
03/30/12 10:48 PM
03/30/12 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Balt. Md
On most older coils the + primary terminal connects to both the primary and secondary windings. The primary windings are on the outside of the secondary windings and the primary windings go from the + terminal to the - terminal. The secondary windings inside of the primary windings go from the + terminal to the center coil wire hole. So when the primary windings circuit is opened the collasping induced magnetic voltage cuts thru the secondary windings and makes a very large high voltage spark in the secondary winding coming out of the coil terminal. So if hooked up backwards the voltage to the secondary winding would have to backtrack thru the primary windings to the + terminal and then thru the secondary windings. So the voltage to the secondary windings would be reduced by the resistance of the primary windings since it would go thru the primary windings and then the secondary windings causing lower voltage and amperage output. It would still run but as was stated will have a lower output and could cause many problems. The condenser just charges while the points are closed and helps the primary windings to colaspe as it keeps the point current from trying to arch and then helps induce voltage in the windings. Ron

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: Guitar Jones] #1206516
03/30/12 10:55 PM
03/30/12 10:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:



It's like the old joke, Do you know why the British drink their beer warm? Because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

You old timers will get it, you young guns may not.


TOOOOO FUNNY!!! Yes, the scope pattern is backwords, and the open voltage ( available voltage ) will be less - along with a shorter firing line. And yes, it will hurt a coil in pretty short order. And yes, as said, if it's a Lucas ignition, it won't make any difference cause it won't work ether way.


Fastest 300
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: 383man] #1206517
03/30/12 11:05 PM
03/30/12 11:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Northern Indiana
Quote:

Yep it gives a weaker spark. Dont you guys remember the old pencil trick in the older Motor Manuals to tell if the coil polarity is wrong ? Ron




Ron,you are really showing your age here!

But,yes,I remember it too. I have one of those manuals around here somewhere still.
Keith

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: 383man] #1206518
03/30/12 11:26 PM
03/30/12 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Yep it gives a weaker spark. Dont you guys remember the old pencil trick in the older Motor Manuals to tell if the coil polarity is wrong ? Ron




I remember it Ron! You beat me to it And , No, Im not old like Ron

Im 29

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: Sport440] #1206519
03/31/12 07:17 AM
03/31/12 07:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,132
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,132
Niles , Ohio
Lucas the Prince of Darkness.I had a buddy that had a Triumph 650.I think every week we worked on the electrics.Guy I went to school with has a Triumph 650 now.Its the only one Ive seen that the electrics work on.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: therocks] #1206520
03/31/12 06:34 PM
03/31/12 06:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688
Philadelphia
R
radar Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,688
Philadelphia
OK so what's the pencil trick?

Re: What if a coil was hooked up backwards [Re: B G Racing] #1206521
03/31/12 09:26 PM
03/31/12 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19
N.E. IL. U.S.A.
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Rumblefish68 Offline
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R

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N.E. IL. U.S.A.
Bought a used 69 Dodge in 1976 with a big block and totally stock, points style ignition.
Car would start fine and ran fine until the temperature got down to about freezing, then it would not start if left to get down to ambient air temp. If put in the garage to warm up, it would start with the starter motor, otherwise you had to push it to start. (4-sd.)
After dealing with this for 2-3 months, started looking at everything and decided to replace the coil thinking it was "weak".
Found the previous owner had a kill switch wired to the coil and the leads were re-installed on the coil backwards. Switched them back and everything was fine.
By the way,it only had 8,300 miles on it, I still have it ,it has 27,000 on it now, and the original coil is still in it.
Most puzzling thing I ever saw.
The original owner never had a problem because He only drove it on nice summer days. I knew the car since new, bought it from my cousin, the original owner.

Jay

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