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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: A12]
#1204928
04/02/12 12:15 AM
04/02/12 12:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21
Woodburn ,Oregon
TwoLane
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21
Woodburn ,Oregon
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A12- again- cool car. that (your pic) is more intriguing than mine. I guess I should have posted this as "Check out my 70 Super Bee emblem F***up" instead. I'm done beating this horse- stuff happens on cars however they do.. I bought this with the emblems where they were and that's that. I don't really care how they may have gotten there. I'm actually glad that I don't own it anymore for the sole reason of having to explain why the emblems are on the car IE: wrong, put on , changed hood, or whatever people want to dream up. 
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: TwoLane]
#1204929
04/02/12 12:19 AM
04/02/12 12:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,920
new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,920
new berlin wisconsin
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re-read my post above about my car. unusual things can happen to cars before they are ever delivered to the first owner.
basicly my car was a 1 owner low miles car purchased NEW with 15 miles on the car. i ended up having different colored fenders, door skins replaced and 1/4 panels repaired before the original owner ever saw it to buy. i have repainted 100's of volaries due to industrial fallout before the owners ever purchased there cars. i have removed dodge parts from plymouths, plymouth parts off chryslers, chrysler parts off plymouths that were assembled wrong. i have welded and bondoed trim holes on cars that had the wrong trim installed at the factory. i have replaced damaged sheetmetal on cars that were wrecked when they rolled off the trucks damaged. i have traded doors, hoods, bumpers, wheels and tires between cars because the new owners wanted factory options on there cars when they weren't originally installed on them. i have even seen owners buying 2 new cars with different size motors and having the engines and trans swapped to save on insurance. then they put the other car on consignment to sell.
just because you THINK it's original because the SECOND owner told you so. think again. the only way to be 100% sure something is original is to have photo documentation of the car the moment it rolls off the line.
to all of the people doing factory original restos. my hat is tipped to you for all of your hard work you do. the problem is you really don't know how the car rolled off the line, no one knows. it's just a educated guess at best. cars are assembled wrong at the factory, they get damaged, and sometimes repaired, before they ever make it to the dealerships. with all of the work on paint dabs on the suspension bolts as it left the factory. in all of my years of working at new car dealers, started working at a plymouth dealer in 76. those paint dabs put on nuts and bolts. THE NEW CAR PREP MAN DOES THAT STEP. when they roll off the line there isn't any paint on the bolts. same thing with cotter pins. they are installed by the new car prep man.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: TwoLane]
#1204932
04/02/12 12:40 PM
04/02/12 12:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
A12- again- cool car. that (your pic) is more intriguing than mine. I guess I should have posted this as "Check out my 70 Super Bee emblem F***up" instead.
I'm done beating this horse- stuff happens on cars however they do.. I bought this with the emblems where they were and that's that. I don't really care how they may have gotten there.
I'm actually glad that I don't own it anymore for the sole reason of having to explain why the emblems are on the car IE: wrong, put on , changed hood, or whatever people want to dream up.
Here are the possibilities;
- 1) the wrong fenders were installed at the factory
- 2) the wrong hood was installed at the factory
- 3) car was damaged and repaired using wrong hood OR fenders prior to the original sale
- 4) the original selling dealer added the fender badges
- 5) one of the first two owners swapped the hood or fenders off of another 'Bee.
- 6) one of the first two owners drilled holes and added the fender emblems
- 7) Aliens did it just to add another element to the bag of mysteries like cattle mutilations and crop circles
...Now all you need to do is figure out which is most LIKELY.
Me?, I'll believe the OP when he says the fender bolts were unmolested. I'll say a hood swap is unlikely if that really is the red "carb air" knob we see in that pic. That leaves 1,4,6 &7....and since I'm not really buying into the little green men theory, I'd say that leaves 1,4 & 6 and 1 and 6 are the most likely IMO.
...of course, we will never know for sure. 
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: HPMike]
#1204936
04/02/12 02:01 PM
04/02/12 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Im also of the opinion tha the wrong fenders were installed...But...It probably wasnt a mistake. Maybe there were no undrilled fenders on hand. And rather than fill the holes it was much easier to just install the emblems and call it a day. I think stuff like this happened all the time. Especially back then, when there wasnt as much scrutiny as you would find today.
As the cars were built they used the parts they were "supposed" to, but if there was a shortage then reasonable means were used to keep the line moving. In a case like this, installing a few extra emblems definitely falls under reasonable means...
MB
Mike, with all of the broadcast sheets and fender tag/build tags starting in Body-in-White to the final control and all of the QC I just don't see that happening but that's just my opinion. People say there was "no quality" or "quality control" but I know there was. When I ordered my '69 road runner (photo earlier in this post) it came just like I ordered it and no issues when it arrived. On of my friends ordered a '68 Hemi road runner the year before and it was delivered just like he ordered and no issues on delivery and another friend ordered a '69 4-speed road runner one month after I did and again no issues. I know that's only three examples but over the years during that time I never heard anyone that didn't get what they ordered or had something odd like extra emblems or they were out of 383 4-barrels so they put in a.......going off the deep end on that but what I mean is that if you can't vouch for how it was delivered then it's all a guess or what you want to believe.
Now I will NEVER be able to prove my A12 road runner came with GTX trim even with the fact there are 48 trim holes in the exact same place as my '69 GTX and the fact that the trim clips slide on the back of the trim so the holes could be off by an 1/8" to 6 inches if someone other than the factory put the holes in that is still not proof that the dealer or owner did them....I wasn't there when the car arrived and I haven't found the original owner....all just speculation
MikeR
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: A12]
#1204937
04/02/12 02:16 PM
04/02/12 02:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Im also of the opinion tha the wrong fenders were installed...But...It probably wasnt a mistake. Maybe there were no undrilled fenders on hand. And rather than fill the holes it was much easier to just install the emblems and call it a day. I think stuff like this happened all the time. Especially back then, when there wasnt as much scrutiny as you would find today.
As the cars were built they used the parts they were "supposed" to, but if there was a shortage then reasonable means were used to keep the line moving. In a case like this, installing a few extra emblems definitely falls under reasonable means...
MB
Mike, with all of the broadcast sheets and fender tag/build tags starting in Body-in-White to the final control and all of the QC I just don't see that happening but that's just my opinion. People say there was "no quality" or "quality control" but I know there was. When I ordered my '69 road runner (photo earlier in this post) it came just like I ordered it and no issues when it arrived. On of my friends ordered a '68 Hemi road runner the year before and it was delivered just like he ordered and no issues on delivery and another friend ordered a '69 4-speed road runner one month after I did and again no issues. I know that's only three examples but over the years during that time I never heard anyone that didn't get what they ordered or had something odd like extra emblems or they were out of 383 4-barrels so they put in a.......going off the deep end on that but what I mean is that if you can't vouch for how it was delivered then it's all a guess or what you want to believe.
Now I will NEVER be able to prove my A12 road runner came with GTX trim even with the fact there are 48 trim holes in the exact same place as my '69 GTX and the fact that the trim clips slide on the back of the trim so the holes could be off by an 1/8" to 6 inches if someone other than the factory put the holes in that is still not proof that the dealer or owner did them....I wasn't there when the car arrived and I haven't found the original owner....all just speculation
MikeR
I speak of a 1970 Hemi cuda that was delivered with incorrect interior (leather ordered - car had vinyl) and missing the passenger side mirror. Both are documented with the original paperwork.
I can also tell you that while truck shopping in 99 I found a new 99 Dodge with a leather interior door panel on one side and a cloth interior panel on the other.
I think the factory made plenty of errors.
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: TwoLane]
#1204939
04/02/12 02:55 PM
04/02/12 02:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
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Quote:
... I pulled the nose off just for something to do when I was 16 ( I was intrigued as to how the bumpers came off) The fenders bolts still had paint on them- no sign of being removed (paint cracks/missing paint on bolts).
I find this to be the most interesting comment in the entire thread.
I sure am jealous of you people with photographic memories!
I remember a lot of things about how my cars were (or are) until I look at the photos or just go out in the garage and look... Suddenly things that I knew were perfect instantly become not so nice, or mounted/installed/or are altogether different than what I swore was there.
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: A12]
#1204941
04/02/12 02:59 PM
04/02/12 02:59 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Im also of the opinion tha the wrong fenders were installed...But...It probably wasnt a mistake. Maybe there were no undrilled fenders on hand. And rather than fill the holes it was much easier to just install the emblems and call it a day. I think stuff like this happened all the time. Especially back then, when there wasnt as much scrutiny as you would find today.
As the cars were built they used the parts they were "supposed" to, but if there was a shortage then reasonable means were used to keep the line moving. In a case like this, installing a few extra emblems definitely falls under reasonable means...
MB
Mike, with all of the broadcast sheets and fender tag/build tags starting in Body-in-White to the final control and all of the QC I just don't see that happening but that's just my opinion. People say there was "no quality" or "quality control" but I know there was. When I ordered my '69 road runner (photo earlier in this post) it came just like I ordered it and no issues when it arrived. On of my friends ordered a '68 Hemi road runner the year before and it was delivered just like he ordered and no issues on delivery and another friend ordered a '69 4-speed road runner one month after I did and again no issues. I know that's only three examples but over the years during that time I never heard anyone that didn't get what they ordered or had something odd like extra emblems or they were out of 383 4-barrels so they put in a.......going off the deep end on that but what I mean is that if you can't vouch for how it was delivered then it's all a guess or what you want to believe.
Now I will NEVER be able to prove my A12 road runner came with GTX trim even with the fact there are 48 trim holes in the exact same place as my '69 GTX and the fact that the trim clips slide on the back of the trim so the holes could be off by an 1/8" to 6 inches if someone other than the factory put the holes in that is still not proof that the dealer or owner did them....I wasn't there when the car arrived and I haven't found the original owner....all just speculation
MikeR
With all due respect Mike, are you really willing to go out on that limb and say that EVERY car came right off the assembly line with it's all correct parts that it was supposed to have? Heck, Id even think there were "suitable substitutes" for certain conditions where due to part shortages or some other scenario.
Quick story.
I bought a new Dodge Durango in 1999. The next morning when I went to get in the truck I noticed that the "V8Magnum" emblems were missing on the front fenders! No evidence of them ever having them either... Complained to the dealer and they said there were a few that they delivered with that problem. They supplied me the emblems and I stuck em on.
This was in 1999..It couldn't have happened in '69 also??
MB
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Re: For all you 70 Super Bee guys - NEVER say never!
[Re: HPMike]
#1204942
04/02/12 03:07 PM
04/02/12 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Im also of the opinion tha the wrong fenders were installed...But...It probably wasnt a mistake. Maybe there were no undrilled fenders on hand. And rather than fill the holes it was much easier to just install the emblems and call it a day. I think stuff like this happened all the time. Especially back then, when there wasnt as much scrutiny as you would find today.
As the cars were built they used the parts they were "supposed" to, but if there was a shortage then reasonable means were used to keep the line moving. In a case like this, installing a few extra emblems definitely falls under reasonable means...
MB
Mike, with all of the broadcast sheets and fender tag/build tags starting in Body-in-White to the final control and all of the QC I just don't see that happening but that's just my opinion. People say there was "no quality" or "quality control" but I know there was. When I ordered my '69 road runner (photo earlier in this post) it came just like I ordered it and no issues when it arrived. On of my friends ordered a '68 Hemi road runner the year before and it was delivered just like he ordered and no issues on delivery and another friend ordered a '69 4-speed road runner one month after I did and again no issues. I know that's only three examples but over the years during that time I never heard anyone that didn't get what they ordered or had something odd like extra emblems or they were out of 383 4-barrels so they put in a.......going off the deep end on that but what I mean is that if you can't vouch for how it was delivered then it's all a guess or what you want to believe.
Now I will NEVER be able to prove my A12 road runner came with GTX trim even with the fact there are 48 trim holes in the exact same place as my '69 GTX and the fact that the trim clips slide on the back of the trim so the holes could be off by an 1/8" to 6 inches if someone other than the factory put the holes in that is still not proof that the dealer or owner did them....I wasn't there when the car arrived and I haven't found the original owner....all just speculation
MikeR
With all due respect Mike, are you really willing to go out on that limb and say that EVERY car came right off the assembly line with it's all correct parts that it was supposed to have? Heck, Id even think there were "suitable substitutes" for certain conditions where due to part shortages or some other scenario.
Quick story.
I bought a new Dodge Durango in 1999. The next morning when I went to get in the truck I noticed that the "V8Magnum" emblems were missing on the front fenders! No evidence of them ever having them either... Complained to the dealer and they said there were a few that they delivered with that problem. They supplied me the emblems and I stuck em on.
This was in 1999..It couldn't have happened in '69 also??
MB
Mike no disrespect taken, but you came up with a perfect example of what is believable as to what may or may not have changed with a two TITLED owner car that could end up being who knows how many owners on the OP's car. YOU bought the Durango NEW and you noticed the missing emblems. If you didn't install them then what would the third owner think or how could they prove that "some" were missing the emblems?
I can't prove anything on my A12 rr because I didn't buy it new, just my opinion about all of this.
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...for the record, the grills are painted incorrectly as well. 
The factory ad could be for a 6pack with radio delete? 
........this seems to be the place to wait and what to do as they come in 
