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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203109
03/25/12 10:45 PM
03/25/12 10:45 PM
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SSAAHemiFan
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Quote:
The Lakewood scattershield does not work with a factory A-Body z-bar set-up, I found that out over 30 years ago. I had to find an Ansen scattershield that was specifically made for the A-Body. I assume you bought the repop Brewers z-bar, ball stud bracket, and spacer? All that stuff is 100% correct, it is the Lakewood that is designed for all other applications EXCEPT for an A-body big block. 
You pegged it  - I had 100% faith in the parts from Brewer's so I left them them out of the question to avoid any conflict.
I either have to move the pin on the bellhousing bracket 1" down and 1/4 forward and then shorten the linkage arm the same to keep the clutch fork linkage on the same plane OR move the mounting hole in the inner fender to match the "new" scattershield height.
Inner fender relocation would be the easiest but I don't know if that will affect the overall ratio ?
Anyone ever moved the inner fender location ?
Thank you both for confirming. It has been one of those things were I spent a ton of time measuring engine location, driveline angles and everything else trying to figure out what was going on.
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203110
03/25/12 11:30 PM
03/25/12 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,666
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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I went out in the garage and took some pics of my factory 383 4-speed GTS and also some pics of the correct parts for a factory Hemi Dart from Jim Schild's book. I am not sure if they are identical or not since the text under the Hemi parts says they have a special raised pin and modified z-bar. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/25/12 11:31 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203111
03/25/12 11:32 PM
03/25/12 11:32 PM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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More pics, on the factory bellhousing for the big block A-Body there are two mounting holes that the special bracket and spacer have two bolts that hold it on.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203112
03/25/12 11:33 PM
03/25/12 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Ball stud and z-bar pic on the frame.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203114
03/25/12 11:35 PM
03/25/12 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Pic 2... I will get pics of the Ansen bellhousing tomorrow. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/25/12 11:36 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203115
03/26/12 12:06 AM
03/26/12 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,136
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
The Lakewood scattershield does not work with a factory A-Body z-bar set-up, I found that out over 30 years ago. I had to find an Ansen scattershield that was specifically made for the A-Body. I assume you bought the repop Brewers z-bar, ball stud bracket, and spacer? All that stuff is 100% correct, it is the Lakewood that is designed for all other applications EXCEPT for an A-body big block.
You pegged it - I had 100% faith in the parts from Brewer's so I left them them out of the question to avoid any conflict.
I either have to move the pin on the bellhousing bracket 1" down and 1/4 forward and then shorten the linkage arm the same to keep the clutch fork linkage on the same plane OR move the mounting hole in the inner fender to match the "new" scattershield height.
Inner fender relocation would be the easiest but I don't know if that will affect the overall ratio ?
Anyone ever moved the inner fender location ?
Thank you both for confirming. It has been one of those things were I spent a ton of time measuring engine location, driveline angles and everything else trying to figure out what was going on.
I wouldn't move the inner fender location , make a bracket to move the ballstud .
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1203116
03/26/12 12:18 AM
03/26/12 12:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,666
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Since I was the first one to reproduce the ballstud bracket it sure looks like the Hemi bracket is indeed offset from the 383 piece, I will have to compare my blueprints to the one's in Schild's book. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/26/12 12:20 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203118
03/26/12 06:22 PM
03/26/12 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,666
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Here are the Ansen bellhousing pics...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203121
03/26/12 09:00 PM
03/26/12 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
64dodge572
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Jim-
Something else to consider is that the 67 bell bracket is different looking than the 68-9. I also have what I believe to be an original modified Hemi bracket that was used in the 68 SS cars. I'll have to see if I can get dad to take a pic of all 3 together. Its also funny that the 2nd pic you posted out of the book shows a pic of the early 62-5 B fork not the later 702 part number like used in the BB A-body cars.
Dan
Brewers Performance Inc. 4-speed transmission and parts specialists PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259 FAX 937-947-4419 www.brewersperformance.com
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: 64dodge572]
#1203122
03/26/12 09:37 PM
03/26/12 09:37 PM
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Dan, I was intrigued by the B-Body fork too, I am going to have to look into it further. The bellhousing that is on Larry Griffith's original SS Dart is the one that says "steel" on the top and the clutch pan and has the casting number 2463230 on the bell and 2206044 on the pan. I have seen these before but are as rare as hens teeth! Here are pics of the bell from Schild's book.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203124
03/28/12 09:22 PM
03/28/12 09:22 PM
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SSAAHemiFan
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I had the 65 B fork in my car for mockup using a Lakewood shield and I believe (hope?) the offset is different as the fork hits before full travel is realized - I am going to try a later B-fork next. KIller part of the deal is my Dad HAD one of he Hemi "STEEL" bellhousings that I now need but he sold it to Atwell at one of the Motech swap meets ages ago .  It was one of those times it would have been nice to own a crystal ball or time machine, I'm sure most guys here have been there before. It would have been "wasted" for use in my car but it is nice to know he probably used it in a original car as it should be.
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203127
03/29/12 01:09 PM
03/29/12 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a Lakewood bell in my Dart and it works fine with a factory z-bar and off-set bracket. The alignment is off by a little, but not much. I can live with it where it is. Clutch works fine also. I can try to get some pics of it this evening and post them if anyone wants to see some.
Do you know what year the Lakewood was made and do you have the part number? I say that because I tried to use one for my 383 Dart in the late 70's and there was no way. That is when I found the Ansen was specifically made for a big block A-Body, and even works in the early A cars as well.
I'm not sure of the year of the housing. I know I bought it used, repainted it and only remember the SFI sticker on it that I taped over. I don't recall seeing a part# stamped any where on the thing. Doesn't mean there isn't one there. Just didn't pay attention or notice it. I can look though. Any where in particular that I should look for a p/n?
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: 70HemiGTX]
#1203128
03/29/12 01:43 PM
03/29/12 01:43 PM
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If you can post a pic or 2 when you can that would be great. A buddy dropped off another Lakewood shield today on his way to work. It was on a 65 B-body that was raced forever. Both shields are 2 piece. No P/N found on either but the "early" one is noticebly heavier in weight.
Last edited by SSAAHemiFan; 03/30/12 12:10 AM.
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: 70HemiGTX]
#1203130
03/29/12 06:36 PM
03/29/12 06:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Mine Lakewood was a one piece with the big plate and 17 freakin' bolts that held it together!  The Ansen design is similar and has dual bolt patterns for small or big block.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203140
03/31/12 11:37 PM
03/31/12 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Here is a pic of the Z-Bar bracket location on a Lakewood shield if anyone is interested.
I am going to cut and relocate it as soon as I am off crutches.
Thanks to everyone who contributed info and pics.
In case measurements are hard to read on your screen:
Top to bottom
1 5/8
1/2
1 1/4
2 1/2
Which way are you moving it?
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203143
04/01/12 09:20 AM
04/01/12 09:20 AM
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Quote:
[quote
Which way are you moving it?
The bellhousing side pivot ball has to end up 1" lower and approx 1/2 forward from where it is now -
I am going to split the difference between both components ( move the bellhousing bracket forward the 1/2" and just lower the ball location on the bolted on bracket). I had to push the firewall in to clear the bell bracket so this will fix both problems.
Rhino - Thank you for the offer, it's totally up to you. I am going to just cut and change what I have - Chances of finding a Ansen are slim.
I put the original Lakewood location on there just for "general knowlege". It may help others in the future.
I will post pics of the mods when I finish them and more importantly let you know if they worked.
Thanks ALL
If you had to push the firewall in to clear that bracket, are you sure you have the engine sitting at the correct location? I have plenty of room to the fire wall. Also, is the engine sitting level from side to side? Having to move the bracket down 1" seems like an awful lot to be off. Just asking.
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You will be making some parts if you want it to work correctly. 
