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Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: astjp2] #1188759
03/01/12 06:53 PM
03/01/12 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
I thought about that as well. My guess is that they would probably be in the engineering archives of Chrysler, if that even still exists. I would think that a blueprint of specs to repair it, released to the public, may have been nixed by Ma Mopar since it may have been thought of as a non wearing component. My understanding is that a replacement would have been the recommendation rather than a repair.

I have more pictures to follow tonight. In fairness to "cageman" that thought that the LCA washers altered caster, I'll post an untouched K to show my point. I'll also show up close the open gaps of an unsupported steering box mount. Check back around 7:00 west coast time.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188760
03/01/12 07:26 PM
03/01/12 07:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 685
Bismarck, ND USA
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cageman Offline
mopar
cageman  Offline
mopar
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 685
Bismarck, ND USA
I guess that might of came of harsh. I just meant that if you dont know what your doing, you can really screw a car up. I have seen many a drag car that was sold cause the owner thought that he "knew" what he was doing, but just screwed up everything he touched.
In a perfect world, you would have set the bump before you took it out of the car, and took good measuremenst of its location in the car before taking it out. Also It would have been a good idea to have the car put on a frame rack to see if the whole car was indeed in the porper location. Then after you take the k frame out, you make a support jig to hold everything in place. These k frames are made out of relatively thin metal. Dont believe me it moved. Take a two inch wide by 1/8 inch strap that is two feet long. Weld across one side about half way, watch the metal move.
It appeared to me that you just welded a washer to where the lower butts into, if that was the case, you better start making some crazy upper control arms to even get 1/2 a degree of caster. All I can see is a bunch of grinder marks, so I still cant verify what you did or did not do.
Sorry if I hurt your feelers, I have learned more by people telling me what I did wrong, then people following me like sheep agreeing with me.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: cageman] #1188761
03/01/12 10:33 PM
03/01/12 10:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
The "right" way to weld one would be to bolt or weld it down to a welding table and only run about 3" long beads one at a time letting them cool to below 100 degrees before starting another one. A K member could very easily be warped before or after welding.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: 72Swinger] #1188762
03/01/12 10:56 PM
03/01/12 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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My welds were actually shorter than that, more like 1 1/2" stitch style. I welded the perimeter in a huge circle, filling in until it was done.
As promised, here are a few more shots. This one is a 1973 A body V8 unit as built by Ma Mopar....

Note the ring that extends past the body of the K member. THAT is the lower control arm mount. It clearly sticks out by at least 1/8". The reinforcing washer that I used was exactly 1/8" thick and sat flush. The inside diameter of the washer was larger, so I welded in the gap and ground the welds flush. The end result should not result in a loss of any caster.

7099108-DSCN1113.JPG (868 downloads)
Last edited by Frankenduster; 03/01/12 11:01 PM.
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188763
03/01/12 11:04 PM
03/01/12 11:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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This is the same K member from another angle. You can see the open, unsupported areas of the steering box mount. Seeing it from this position without the steering box in the way, it is clear that there is room for improvement.

7099121-DSCN1114.JPG (1018 downloads)
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188764
03/01/12 11:07 PM
03/01/12 11:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Its even more obvious from the front!

7099123-DSCN1116.JPG (831 downloads)
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188765
03/01/12 11:10 PM
03/01/12 11:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
This K member is a '73-76 A body V8 unit as well. I'm still working on it, but note the reinforced mounts as compared to the originals in the previous pictures.

7099125-DSCN1117.JPG (780 downloads)
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188766
03/01/12 11:12 PM
03/01/12 11:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Final A body K member shot:

This K will also get the seams welded and the welds ground smoothe. It is going into a '72 Duster 340 clone.

7099131-DSCN1118.JPG (740 downloads)
Last edited by Frankenduster; 03/01/12 11:15 PM.
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188767
03/01/12 11:17 PM
03/01/12 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
Not saying you did it wrong at all. Another thing is to jump around and not keep running one continuous line. I only know this stuff from trussing axles in Cummins Dodges so they dont smile when landing lol!


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188768
03/01/12 11:22 PM
03/01/12 11:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
The B body K member once again. I meant to shoot this angle before, but I missed it. From here, you can see the front side of the steering box mounts that are now filled in, plus an additional gusset that looks like a black Dorito's chip.

7099147-DSCN1111.JPG (676 downloads)
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: 72Swinger] #1188769
03/01/12 11:26 PM
03/01/12 11:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
Quote:

Not saying you did it wrong at all.




Thanks, I figured that you were just chiming in. I'm always willing to learn a new way.

Final picture:

7099154-DSCN1110.JPG (563 downloads)
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188770
03/02/12 12:40 AM
03/02/12 12:40 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 958
eastern, pa.
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cudabitten Offline
super stock
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super stock
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Joined: May 2008
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eastern, pa.
I don't think I have enough guts to add pieces, but when I finally get this piece out, I might add some welds. A lot of my car appears like it is basically tack welded togther, amazing it lasted this long.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: cudabitten] #1188771
03/02/12 05:43 AM
03/02/12 05:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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It might seem that our cars were just tacked together, but they DID last this long, right?
Tom Quad is one of the strong proponents of welding up the seams in the unibody and K member. Toms posts appear to be the work of a man that has far more experience than I do.
The K member in my Charger works fine. It is not damaged and I get rarely any bump steer with the car. This K will lay the foundation for any chassis improvements I make later. I expected the subframe connectors and torque boxes to improve things, and they did. The car feels more solid than before. It takes road irregularities in stride, as if I were driving on a smoothe road. This K member upgrade cost me only a few bucks in metal stock, some MIG wire and Argon.....plus a few $ for saw blades and grinder discs.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188772
03/02/12 01:37 PM
03/02/12 01:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,015
Salem
Grizzly Offline
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Salem
That was a good idea to do patterns with cardboard. I'm going to use it in the future.


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Grizzly] #1188773
03/02/12 02:47 PM
03/02/12 02:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
Im gonna do mine when I yank out the engine in a week or two.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Grizzly] #1188774
03/02/12 06:27 PM
03/02/12 06:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Quote:

That was a good idea to do patterns with cardboard. I'm going to use it in the future.



Thanks. I can't recall if it was my own idea or if I had read about it somewhere in the past.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188775
03/02/12 09:31 PM
03/02/12 09:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,697
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,697
Bitopia
Quote:

It might seem that our cars were just tacked together, but they DID last this long, right?






Anybody has my permission to cherry pick the following.

1. I suspect the above would be referring to millions of Mopar k members
2. Those k members combined have driven trillions of miles.
3. Known/reported failure of any mopar k member structural spot welds is rare or non existent
4. Any common steel welded part that flexes, eventually will fail
5. The more/greater a common steel welded part flexes, the sooner it will fail.
6. The mopar k member is a common steel welded part
7. Additional welding usually reduces flex in a multi piece steel partially welded component
7. There have been numerous reports of visible gear box mounting flex when turning the front wheels at a dead stop
8. I suspect that the turning of front wheels at a dead stop MAY(?) be the highest loads a steering gear box encounters.
9. I also suspect these steering gear box loads decrease as speed increases from zero, until front wheel gyroscope issues arise.
10. I would also suspect a NY mopar taxi would have the highest failure of any weak spot welds on a K member.
11. I would also suspect Mopar would recall any K members that would be likely to have spot welds fail.
12. I also would think that few experienced drivers at speed abruptly input steering corrections in non panic situations
13. I would think abrupt steering inputs in panic situations at high speed are not finesse based
14. Steering smoothness is a normal drivers goal when operating at high speed on dry asphalt
15. I suspect the faster steering inputs are added, the higher the forces the steering box mounting sees
16. I wonder if higher cornering g forces are easily misconstrued by a driver as requiring greater steering wheel forces.
17. I suspect the faster the car goes, it does not significantly increase the forces the steering box mountings see
18. Reducing mounting point flex for improved driver confidence, normally in HP driving situations, IMO, does not include concern of hitting curbs, potholes, road debris, dead penguins, etc
19. Non of the above is intended to address LCA mounting hole blow out, because that repair is not intended as a fix for improved steering response.
20. No hidden final conclusions are intended in any of the above.

Last edited by jcc; 03/03/12 12:29 AM.
Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188776
03/02/12 09:48 PM
03/02/12 09:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Do you mind if I post a few pictures of mine? I did the same thing you for the most part.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Challenger 1] #1188777
03/03/12 01:20 AM
03/03/12 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
I welcome anyone to join in and post their own pictures! I always welcome the opportunity to learn from someone.
JCC: Some very valid points in your post. I agree that the steering box stiffening and the benefits thereof may be less noticeable at higher speed. Part of that may be because the steering angle at speed is in a narrower range. I agree that there MAY be minimal benefits from the welded seams. I just enjoy welding and thought that it might help.
For those of us that have no interest in switching to an aftermarket K member, these mods may be of interest.

Re: WELDED K member pictures [Re: Kern Dog] #1188778
03/03/12 10:06 AM
03/03/12 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
Falconer, NY
KatFysh Offline
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Falconer, NY
I know what I'll be doing once I get the correct K for my Cuda. I wanted to do this when I had my previous car but never did. This time though, different story. Very insightful and a BIG thank you for posting pics..



When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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