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Re: Wheel Hop ???
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1185529
03/05/12 03:07 AM
03/05/12 03:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
........... And pinion angle has nothing to do with it - it deals with driveshaft vibration and u-joint life and has nothing to do with wheel hop or traction.
Good news on the inexpensive fix.
The above statement, however is really not accurate information and simply not true in all cases.
Correcting out of spec pinion angle can stop a lot of cars from wheel hoping in addition to being easier on driveline parts and reducing vibration.
You can always Google "can pinion angle cause wheel hop" and decide for yourself.
Last edited by jbc426; 03/05/12 03:46 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Wheel Hop ???
[Re: jbc426]
#1185530
03/05/12 03:46 AM
03/05/12 03:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Quote:
........... And pinion angle has nothing to do with it - it deals with driveshaft vibration and u-joint life and has nothing to do with wheel hop or traction.
Good news on the inexpensive fix. This statement is bad information and simply not true in all cases though. You can Google "pinion angle... wheel hop" and decide for yourself.
The Google search brings up the same yap in other discussion groups as it does here, with no mechanical theory to prove it. The means that you use to change pinion angle may change traction, not the angle change itself. A shim between the perch and the spring to change the angle lowers the car, changing instant center and traction. Changing the pinion angle with the lower link in a ladder bar changes wheelbase, instant center and traction. Apply "X" amount of torque to the pinion and it will try to rotate the ring gear with "X" amount of force - it doesn't matter if you apply that torque from the pinion at the 3, 6, 9, or 12 o'clock position - the pinion will apply the same amount of force.  Feel free to use mechanical logic and not unproven quotes from other discussion groups to show how pinion angle can change traction, or create wheelhop.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Wheel Hop ???
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1185531
03/05/12 03:56 AM
03/05/12 03:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
........... And pinion angle has nothing to do with it - it deals with driveshaft vibration and u-joint life and has nothing to do with wheel hop or traction.
Good news on the inexpensive fix. This statement is bad information and simply not true in all cases though. You can Google "pinion angle... wheel hop" and decide for yourself.
The Google search brings up the same yap in other discussion groups as it does here, with no mechanical theory to prove it. The means that you use to change pinion angle may change traction, not the angle change itself. A shim between the perch and the spring to change the angle lowers the car, changing instant center and traction. Changing the pinion angle with the lower link in a ladder bar changes wheelbase, instant center and traction. Apply "X" amount of torque to the pinion and it will try to rotate the ring gear with "X" amount of force - it doesn't matter if you apply that torque from the pinion at the 3, 6, 9, or 12 o'clock position - the pinion will apply the same amount of force. Feel free to use mechanical logic and not unproven quotes from other discussion groups to show how pinion angle can change traction, or create wheelhop.
Unproven quotes? Ladder bars? Ok, you win. 
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Wheel Hop ???
[Re: jbc426]
#1185532
03/05/12 04:11 AM
03/05/12 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
........... And pinion angle has nothing to do with it - it deals with driveshaft vibration and u-joint life and has nothing to do with wheel hop or traction.
Good news on the inexpensive fix. This statement is bad information and simply not true in all cases though. You can Google "pinion angle... wheel hop" and decide for yourself.
The Google search brings up the same yap in other discussion groups as it does here, with no mechanical theory to prove it. The means that you use to change pinion angle may change traction, not the angle change itself. A shim between the perch and the spring to change the angle lowers the car, changing instant center and traction. Changing the pinion angle with the lower link in a ladder bar changes wheelbase, instant center and traction. Apply "X" amount of torque to the pinion and it will try to rotate the ring gear with "X" amount of force - it doesn't matter if you apply that torque from the pinion at the 3, 6, 9, or 12 o'clock position - the pinion will apply the same amount of force. Feel free to use mechanical logic and not unproven quotes from other discussion groups to show how pinion angle can change traction, or create wheelhop.
Unproven quotes? Ladder bars? Ok, you win.
I covered leaf spring cars by mentioning the shim between the spring and perch. I also included ladder bars because your "Google search" turned up people setting pinion angle on ladder bar cars.
The "pinion angle - traction" debate has went on here at least the 5 years or so that I've been a member. There hasn't been anybody yet that has come up with mechanical logic on how changing only the pinion angle changes traction. 
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Wheel Hop ???
[Re: Chi_Town_Runner]
#1185533
03/05/12 12:45 PM
03/05/12 12:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Quote:
Hurray !!!!!! 
I fabed up 4, 1/4" steel plates, two 1.5' wide and the other 2 were 2" wide with 2 - 7/16 bolts for each. These two clamps were used on the front sections of the leaf springs on each side (total of 4 clamps).
No more wheel hop.
Worked great and no slapper bars.
Thanks again to all for the help.
Frank 
Cheap & Easy 
Greg
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