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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: Crazy68Dart]
#1142508
12/26/11 06:35 PM
12/26/11 06:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
So, getting the old dowel pins out, pair of vise grips is chewing them up pretty good. They are turning, but just barely.
I am guessing the best way to do this is with acetylene and get things real hot?
I don't have a set of torches which could be a problem. 
I've had a bit of luck standing the block vertically on several pieces of plywood then attaching the vice grips to the dowel and then a cherry picker to the vice grips. Start to lift the block and the dowels should come out. If they still don't come out, get the block 1" of the ground and 'hold back' on the vice grips while spinning the block slowly. That should be all it needs.
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1142510
12/27/11 10:33 AM
12/27/11 10:33 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
Robbins
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Joplin, MO USA
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So this is needing to be done on all bellhousings including stock, then?
Last edited by Robbins; 12/27/11 10:34 AM.
Moparlee
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1142511
12/27/11 11:19 AM
12/27/11 11:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,682
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,682
north of coder
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Quote:
And here it is. The bellhousing was center-bored on a specific block and stayed with it throughout the assembly process.
john, was this true with torqueflites as well ?
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: Robbins]
#1142512
12/27/11 01:28 PM
12/27/11 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
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JohnRR
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Quote:
So this is needing to be done on all bellhousings including stock, then?
I would have to say yes if you are putting a bellhousing on a block that it wasn't originally mated to when machined.
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: moparx]
#1142513
12/27/11 01:30 PM
12/27/11 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
And here it is. The bellhousing was center-bored on a specific block and stayed with it throughout the assembly process.
john, was this true with torqueflites as well ?
I don't think it would be because you can't get the torque convertor into the trans or easily assemble the trans wit hit bolted to the block and the reason that a FLEX PLATE is used ... but if you have problems eating pump seal and bushing a check of the trans to engine runout would be a good idea.
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: Robbins]
#1142515
12/27/11 01:37 PM
12/27/11 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So this is needing to be done on all bellhousings including stock, then?
I would have to say yes if you are putting a bellhousing on a block that it wasn't originally mated to when machined.
That figures.....cause I already put it back together.
Well just  , if you have a problem with your clutch or eating pilot bearings/input shaft bearings then you know what to look at. I put aa alum. 513 bell on a 69 383 and it was off by a lot in 2 directions.
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: JohnRR]
#1142516
12/27/11 02:22 PM
12/27/11 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
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Canton, Ohio
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I tried a little heat with propane torch, no luck. Can spin them, which is pretty tough, but any outward force makes the grips slip off.
I am going to drill/tap and pull them out with a bolt and socket.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: Crazy68Dart]
#1142517
12/27/11 02:40 PM
12/27/11 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
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JohnRR
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Quote:
I tried a little heat with propane torch, no luck. Can spin them, which is pretty tough, but any outward force makes the grips slip off.
I am going to drill/tap and pull them out with a bolt and socket.
Unless you have a dowel puller they are hard to get out , plus spinning them isn't a good idea because you screwing up the hole they are PRESSED into .
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: JohnRR]
#1142518
12/27/11 09:24 PM
12/27/11 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
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They are out, holes are cherry.
Drilled/tapped 1/4-20, stacked some 1/2" hardened washers around dowels, threaded a hardened bolt with a nut and washer installed, cranked nut down and pulled them right out.
RobbMc replacements are on the way.
Last edited by Crazy68Dart; 12/27/11 09:26 PM.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1142519
12/27/11 09:45 PM
12/27/11 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,428
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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Quote:
And here it is. The bellhousing was center-bored on a specific block and stayed with it throughout the assembly process.
Is that for sure John? I was told all had bellhousings installed because the engines were run, misc. tested and timed before going into the car.
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1142520
12/28/11 02:11 AM
12/28/11 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
And here it is. The bellhousing was center-bored on a specific block and stayed with it throughout the assembly process.
Is that for sure John? I was told all had bellhousings installed because the engines were run, misc. tested and timed before going into the car.
The picture doesn't lie.
You don't need a trans to start the engine , toss on a bellhousing , flywheel and a starter ...
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: JohnRR]
#1142521
12/29/11 05:25 PM
12/29/11 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
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Canton, Ohio
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Got the RobbMc pins installed. After some adjustment runout is .002. Thanks for all the help. 
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: jbc426]
#1142523
12/30/11 10:59 AM
12/30/11 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
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I've not checked it. How did you go about this?
Did you check the bell housing laying on its mounting surface and then measure at the trans mounting surface?
Did you then measure the flywheel surface run out and compare the results?
I understand this should be done, but seriously think it might be overkill in my application.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: Crazy68Dart]
#1142525
12/30/11 02:41 PM
12/30/11 02:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,291
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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West Coast, USA
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Quote:
I've not checked it. How did you go about this?
Did you check the bell housing laying on its mounting surface and then measure at the trans mounting surface?
Did you then measure the flywheel surface run out and compare the results?
I understand this should be done, but seriously think it might be overkill in my application.
The bore can be lined up perfectly, but if the transmission is slightly cocked to one side when its bolted on, that's not good.
It's a simple check that's very similar to what you've already done, and helps ensure that the transmission shaft centerline is in-line with the crank centerline, and not at an angle to it when the transmission is bolted up to the bell housing.
You can use almost the same measurement process you've been using, except you run your dial indicator along the face of the transmission mounting surface instead of along the bore opening.
You should be able to detect any measurable tilt or angle on the face of the bell housing.
Adjustment to counter the tilt can be made by using very thin steel shims(similar to feeler gauges) next to the mounting bolts on the block to counter any offset. Or, if it's significant enough, you may want to take the BH down too the machine shop and have it squared up.
Be sure to use them on both sides of the bolts, and make the adjusting shims wide enough to evenly distribute the clamping force around the bolts. You can label them and make a diagram, so you know where they go when installing/ re-installing them again later.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Bellhousing run-out / offset dowel pins
[Re: jbc426]
#1142526
12/30/11 04:03 PM
12/30/11 04:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
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I understand, thanks.
I have setup and measured around the mounting surface, keeping the base on the flywheel. My max variance is .003.
What is the acceptable tolerance for this? I'll need to source some shim stock but that should not be too tough being in Canton, OH.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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