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Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: A12] #1132464
12/19/11 02:16 AM
12/19/11 02:16 AM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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Looks like the fuel lines are being routed to the driver's side of the carbs in that photo?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132465
12/19/11 02:25 AM
12/19/11 02:25 AM
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:

Looks like the fuel lines are being routed to the driver's side of the carbs in that photo?





Hmmmmmmmmmm, good eye John

The fuel line runs on the passenger's side of the distributor to the fuel pump on the Sox car and not on the other side like production

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: A12] #1132466
12/19/11 02:59 AM
12/19/11 02:59 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Where'd the coil go?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: 6bblgt] #1132467
12/19/11 03:24 AM
12/19/11 03:24 AM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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Looks like the front fuel line is going around to the wrong side of the carb and the middle one is going between the carbs.... Could they be Corvette Tri-power carbs!

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132468
12/19/11 08:34 AM
12/19/11 08:34 AM
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Texas
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Would the A12 carbs have been readily available?

The air cleaner does not seem to have the drains either.

Does it have power steering? That's a strange option for a ringer. I have often heard the Ronnie Sox test car was a ringer thus the times turned in the car.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132469
12/19/11 09:28 AM
12/19/11 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,946
Connecticut
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I thought the first ones had the H code and not M??? I read it here years ago,

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: 5126brl No more] #1132470
12/19/11 11:09 AM
12/19/11 11:09 AM
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Atlanta Indiana
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Dave Watt Offline
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Quote:

I thought the first ones had the H code and not M??? I read it here years ago,


Only 2 A12 Road Runners are known to have an H instead of M as the fifth digit in the VIN#. They fall in line with the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 8th ones built. Just a factory goof up.

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: paris401] #1132471
12/19/11 11:59 AM
12/19/11 11:59 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It just says correct, original Edlebrock intake and holley carbs ... doesn't really say they are the originals, but it does seem to imply it.
T




if the intake+carbs were taken from another a-12 made within the same batch, had the same numbers on it , no one i guess would be the wiser... there are no other numbered stamps on either...correct??




And a person can prove such a claim how ?




i duuno.. the intake and carbs on my a-12's i am told are the correct factory pieces... whether or not they are the 'original' pieces that the car left with the factory with i dunno... if i advestised the cars for sale as 'all original', i don't think someone could come in and say these carbs (or intake) is not what the cars left the factory with..

its not like a block or trans where there is a vin # stamped... ofourse you can restamp a block/trans ... but this is not a cheby site... restamping does not happen with mopars...




Doooh , Mike beat me to it ...

Last edited by JohnRR; 12/19/11 12:01 PM.
Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: MI_Custumz] #1132472
12/19/11 12:12 PM
12/19/11 12:12 PM
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The Russo and Steele auction has a link for a .pdf of the june 69 Super Stock mag article , one page has a picture of the 6pk engine sans air cleaner , the engine is a 70 ecs or 71 engine , right down to the carb and the valve covers ... interesting , I'll try to put the link here, if it doesn't work go to the auction.


linky

But the current engine compartment shots of the car in the auction show the car was not restored correctly.
Has anyone seen the fendertag to this car ? ( i've been out of the loop for sometime )



Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: JohnRR] #1132473
12/19/11 12:55 PM
12/19/11 12:55 PM
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Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:

The Russo and Steele auction has a link for a .pdf of the june 69 Super Stock mag article , one page has a picture of the 6pk engine sans air cleaner , the engine is a 70 ecs or 71 engine , right down to the carb and the valve covers ... interesting , I'll try to put the link here, if it doesn't work go to the auction.


linky

But the current engine compartment shots of the car in the auction show the car was not restored correctly.
Has anyone seen the fendertag to this car ? ( i've been out of the loop for sometime )







Think that was just a media photo of the coming '70 model. Here's the car right after restoration link: http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/inventory/1969-1-2-Plymouth-Road-Runner-A12/131322

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: A12] #1132474
12/19/11 05:45 PM
12/19/11 05:45 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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From the site that restored it "The original air cleaner assembly hosts a correct reproduction air cleaner element and hides the rebuilt and detailed and date cose original 4 speed carburetors, complete with the proper choke and fast idle solenoid assemblies."

If the car had the carbs and air cleaner stolen, how can they be original after the restoration?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: MI_Custumz] #1132475
12/19/11 06:06 PM
12/19/11 06:06 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

If the car had the carbs and air cleaner stolen, how can they be original after the restoration?




Well, that's easy, pick one:

- story about the carbs, aircleaner and intake being stolen is untrue

OR

- claim about aforementioned parts being original is untrue.

....take your pick.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: DPelletier] #1132476
12/19/11 07:12 PM
12/19/11 07:12 PM
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new york
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my only point (other then the one at the top of my head) is that if the origs were 5-fingered.. and u replaced them with carbs that are 'dated' properly, and a correct intake (which has no date code??), everything matches...

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: paris401] #1132477
12/19/11 07:39 PM
12/19/11 07:39 PM
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Quote:

my only point (other then the one at the top of my head) is that if the origs were 5-fingered.. and u replaced them with carbs that are 'dated' properly, and a correct intake (which has no date code??), everything matches...




Must be a slow time of season on the island eh Ron ?

That is what someone with little to no integrity would say ... like say a used car salesman ... or someone with a large 401k portfolio that waited too long to liquidate ?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: paris401] #1132478
12/19/11 07:40 PM
12/19/11 07:40 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

my only point (other then the one at the top of my head) is that if the origs were 5-fingered.. and u replaced them with carbs that are 'dated' properly, and a correct intake (which has no date code??), everything matches...




I understand. To my (some would say overly-logical) thought processes I'd say, matching: yes, original: no.....though of course nobody can prove it one way or the other.
In this particular case, there is some compelling evidence that would suggest they cannot be the actual originals.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: DPelletier] #1132479
12/19/11 11:59 PM
12/19/11 11:59 PM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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Story about the carbs, intake and aircleaner being stolen is untrue...

Dave
I think you hit the nail on the head! I always wondered how it could go 111 mph? In 1972, mine was slightly modified, ran strong and, with open headers and slicks, would only go 109 mph. It was hard to understand how they could leave a magazine test car in a place where the parts could be stolen in a day and age when that kind of stuff was rampant? I think Ronnie Sox didn't want to be embarrassed with a basic 104 mph car, called his friend John Baughman and John said he would be there to save the day! Even with Ronnie Sox driving, he couldn't get an extra 6 or 7 mph out of a stock A12 with stock exhaust without a major modification! I am certain of
this! I think they got into it big time in the shop and now those fantastic test results are memorialized for all time...which is fine by me because I have one!

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132480
12/20/11 12:37 AM
12/20/11 12:37 AM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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I agree that it's different than parts with the VIN stamped on them. I think it would be OK if we understand the word "original" in the description to mean it has "correct" date coded carbs and correct intake. Correct carbs and intake are fine. I wouldn't be too concerned about the semantics if I was in the market. I'm still wondering if it really was the magazine car?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132481
12/20/11 02:29 AM
12/20/11 02:29 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Story about the carbs, intake and aircleaner being stolen is untrue...

Dave
I think you hit the nail on the head! I always wondered how it could go 111 mph? In 1972, mine was slightly modified, ran strong and, with open headers and slicks, would only go 109 mph. It was hard to understand how they could leave a magazine test car in a place where the parts could be stolen in a day and age when that kind of stuff was rampant? I think Ronnie Sox didn't want to be embarrassed with a basic 104 mph car, called his friend John Baughman and John said he would be there to save the day! Even with Ronnie Sox driving, he couldn't get an extra 6 or 7 mph out of a stock A12 with stock exhaust without a major modification! I am certain of
this! I think they got into it big time in the shop and now those fantastic test results are memorialized for all time...which is fine by me because I have one!




Do you know this to be FACT ???

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: JohnRR] #1132482
12/20/11 08:25 AM
12/20/11 08:25 AM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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No. I always felt the circumstances and results were suspicious. I never heard of any stock A12 or other six pack coming close to 111 mph in the 1/4?

Re: First A12 car for sale again [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1132483
12/20/11 01:23 PM
12/20/11 01:23 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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I have no idea whether the story about the carbs and intake being stolen is true or not but I have to agree that the 12.91 @111.8 is an anomoly and I'd bet good money that that car had some "tweeks".......how much was done is a mystery, but I would say the most you could expect out of any 440-6 car "as delivered" would be mid 13's at 105-ish.

of course, this isn't the first or last magazine test car that was (ahem) "tuned for optimal performance". Everyone remembers the '64 389/421 GTO road test. THAT was more than a little tweeking!

My '70 Superbee 440-6 Pure Stock build was initially done to be able to duplicate that 12.91 time. I'm sure I'll get there, but then my car is far from "as delivered".


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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