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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: pinkduster]
#1126520
12/04/11 02:44 PM
12/04/11 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
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Yeah, that's what the center in / dual out looks like, but what about the center in / center out? My car had the huge three chambers on it when I bought it. I recently switched to the little single chambers for two reasons. #1, I wanted to see if I'd pick up at the track, and #2, I wanted the car to be as loud and obnoxious as possible, but not run cut-outs. I picked up .02 and 1 mph at the track and yes, the car is crazy loud and 100% totally obnoxious.  Simply out of curiosity, I think I'm going to buy a set of these hopefullyflows that everybody here is in love with and see if they actually make any difference at the track without any other changes to the car. Now THAT would be a real world test. 
I couldn't find an internal shot of anything other than the single-in, dual-out single chamber. But it will have the trademark Flowmaster "wall of death" first deflector. ANY muffler that has an obstruction in the flowpath, no matter what it looks like - I don't care if it comes from NASA, an obstruction causes flow impedence. Flow impedence = restriction. To certain degrees, some of this will not adversely affect your performance, it depends on your HP, the pipe diameter of your system, etc. Too small of diameter pipes will cause restriction as well, so remember that even though the pipes are "straight through." I wish I would have understood this exhaust stuff back in 1983 when I replaced my mufflers on my '71 Hemi Charger. I thought - OK, I got a Hemi car, so I should replace the original mufflers with Hemi mufflers! So I bought a pair of "Hemi" mufflers from Mitchell Motors. The ones I received were shorter than the originals (originals were 20" long bodies). I put them on anyway & I could tell they were restrictive - I mean you could hear it & feel it. If I had known something about exhaust, I would have put on a pair of Walker Redline Z mufflers (which later evolved into the Dynomax Super Turbos).
Dynomax's head of performance exhaust engineering has been an engineer for Walker/Dynomax since about 1974, so he's lived through many muffler designs, & seen lots of mufflers come & go. I learned a lot from him, & contributed a lot to Dynomax when I was there also. There are about a dozen Dynomax mufflers that I suggested we build back 11 years ago, & they were all added to the line. Then I suggested we add a new series of QUALITY mufflers to the Thrush line rather than skirt the brand - hell I contended that more people knew the Thrush muffler brand than Dynomax! Why buy out a company like Thrush & then do nothing with it? It didn't make sense to either of us. Tenneco did eventually add a new family of welded Thrush mufflers, so this may have come from my idea I don't know - I had left the company in 2001. Then the bean counters at Tenneco decided one Friday to kill the Thrush Turbo Tube chambered mufflers around 2000. This was a big mistake. It led to me eventually making MY mufflers - the chambered POWERSTICK. They are based on the same premise of the Turbo Tube, but mine flow a LOT better, & are much more heavily constructed. Plus, I have a family of TRUE 3" versions that sound much more brutal than any muffler on the market. If you want something really different, & really aggressive, you may want to look into them. The thing that always amused me about real chambered exhaust tubes, was the way they sounded so unique. The crimps in the outside casing of the mufflers are what do the sound tuning. They create a sound wave anamoly that no other muffler designs can duplicate.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1126521
12/04/11 04:56 PM
12/04/11 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
MO, USA
Tom Hand
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
MO, USA
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Pinkduster, not sure but the list they refer to may be the one Dad and I generated with all of our testing. We chose to use only mufflers that were similar to stock sized mufflers or in the range of what were then being called turbo-sized. Mainly, we used the 14" and 20" body-sized case. Plus we had no reason to use single chamber mufflers as they are so loud no one could possibly stand to drive around with them too long or they might go deaf.  :) The other reason UltraFlo mufflers work so well is that they have inside diameter pipe that is actually slightly larger than the inlet and outlet bushings. We indeed saw (fantastic performance and) higher than 100% airflow numbers when we tested them as compared to equivalent lengths of straight, unperforated pipe. Hope this makes sense. Tom Hand
Last edited by Tom Hand; 12/04/11 05:04 PM.
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Tom Hand]
#1126522
12/04/11 05:19 PM
12/04/11 05:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
Mick70RR
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
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I just like the sound of Flowmasters, that's why I use them. I fitted electric cutouts just after the collectors and my ET/mph is the same with them open or closed so they are not restrictive at my HP level. I use 3" delta 40's and 3" pipe all the way to the bumper. Here's a nice clip of a Charger with Flowmasters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu8_uxk4hiM
1970 Road Runner
505 cid
MCH CNC ported Stealth heads
MP 528 camshaft
4 speed
GV overdrive
11.98 @ 117 on street treads
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Mick70RR]
#1126523
12/04/11 10:36 PM
12/04/11 10:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
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Quote:
I just like the sound of Flowmasters, that's why I use them. I fitted electric cutouts just after the collectors and my ET/mph is the same with them open or closed so they are not restrictive at my HP level. I use 3" delta 40's and 3" pipe all the way to the bumper.
Here's a nice clip of a Charger with Flowmasters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu8_uxk4hiM
Nice!  I'm one of the few that actually LIKE the sound of Flowmasters too.  However, I'll try a set of the Ultra Flos next season. If they can get me over the 11.80s hump and into the 11.70s or .60s just by changing mufflers, then I'll be a Dynomax convertee. And I'll be sure to post my results on here.
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: pinkduster]
#1126524
12/05/11 12:07 AM
12/05/11 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
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Truth be told, I like the way they sound too on most applications. One of my buddies has a 3" system on a '73 Rallye Charger & the car sounds great - REALLY nice! BUT, a few years ago we rode to a show in it 35 miles away & I'll tell you, the resonance was bad enough that I had a headache by the time we got there, plus my ears were ringing. Flowmasters do have the resonance thing really going on bad.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Tom Hand]
#1126526
12/07/11 07:27 AM
12/07/11 07:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
Hemi ragtop
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
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Quote:
Pinkduster, not sure but the list they refer to may be the one Dad and I generated with all of our testing.
We chose to use only mufflers that were similar to stock sized mufflers or in the range of what were then being called turbo-sized. Mainly, we used the 14" and 20" body-sized case. Plus we had no reason to use single chamber mufflers as they are so loud no one could possibly stand to drive around with them too long or they might go deaf. :)
The other reason UltraFlo mufflers work so well is that they have inside diameter pipe that is actually slightly larger than the inlet and outlet bushings. We indeed saw (fantastic performance and) higher than 100% airflow numbers when we tested them as compared to equivalent lengths of straight, unperforated pipe.
Hope this makes sense.
Tom Hand
All this talk about mufflers is interesting. Some of you are obviously very well infomrmed. I just wonder if any of you have tested Accurate LTD HEMI mufflers and what where the results?
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Tom Hand]
#1126528
12/08/11 12:38 AM
12/08/11 12:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,507
Highland, MI.
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Yeah, I believe the Accurate Hemi mufflers are 3-tubes. They won't have the patented Super Turbo flow directors (bank turns) so that will slow things down internally. I've never looked inside an Accurate muffler to note the dia. of the flow tubes. If they neck-down like OE mufflers, that will also affect the flow quite a bit. Tom is on-target with his comments.
I'm guessing the Accurate Hemi mufflers will flow around 300-350 sCFM if tested the same way the Dynomax mufflers are tested.
To put into perspective, I brought in an NOS AAR/T/A muffler one day when I worked for Tenneco (mufflers for my AAR) & we flow tested it. It had a flow rate of 175 sCFM (BAD!). Then our head engineer designed a couple & our prototype dept. built them (stainless too). They did not have any flow directors on-hand when they built them, but they were built with larger cores. The ones they built had flow rates of 375 sCFM - a HUGE improvement. I tried to get these into production but to no avail............ I don't have my car close to running yet, so I don't know what they sound like. I can't wait though.
Last edited by Sunroofcuda; 12/08/11 12:45 AM.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1126529
12/08/11 07:51 AM
12/08/11 07:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,507
Royersford, PA
bschargerse
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,507
Royersford, PA
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Accurate sells a Hemi High-Flow muffler also. I wonder how that would compare... I have a set for my Charger that someday will get installed.
Brian - 1971 Dodge Challenger
"The Dodge, which was practically stock, just left the Mustang like you wouldn't believe."
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: bschargerse]
#1126530
12/08/11 10:09 AM
12/08/11 10:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I'm a fan of the powersticks myself. awesome sound, but they can be loud. my dakota has 2 of the 31" x 3" versions, welded end to end, and I left that dumped at first. it sounded great, but my first long trip with it left my ears bleeding! I dug out some foamie ear plugs and stuck them in to finish the trip.
that could be because I had them dumped infront of the axle, could be tube length left a resonance, I don't know. I cut off the dump, added a 12" glasspack and then took the exhaust up and over the axle, and now it's angled down/back at 45 degrees so the sound shoots out from under the truck. just about everywhere I go, people come up and comment on how good it sounds, one guy even ran up to me as we were leaving Carlisle and wanted to know where I bought my "cat back" from. his eyes kind of glazed over with the "oh crap" look when I told him it wasn't a cat-back, but a full custom exhaust, but then seemed to come back a little bit when I told him I only had about $250 wrapped up in the whole system (he had been shopping cat-back exhausts which retail for some stupid number, like $500 for some pipe, a muffler, and tips.)
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1126532
12/08/11 07:02 PM
12/08/11 07:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
MO, USA
Tom Hand
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
MO, USA
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Dogdays, 17748s are center outlets so that is likely what you run too. I have some spares around. And as Eric said, the three pass mufflers are pretty similar. For reference, the old true Corvair Turbo 2.5" inlet/outlet muffler flows about 54% of an open pipe. The SuperTurbos, around 70% or so, UltraFlos around 100% and typical DeltaFlow Flowmaster-type mufflers around 53% or so, depending upon inlet/outlet configuration and length. The patented flow directors do add a lot to the air flow potential through the three pass SuperTurbo mufflers even if the pass tube diameters are slightly smaller than inlet and outlet bushings. The old stock mufflers are in the range of 35% or so. My VOE is about 33% then switches up to about 55% or so. Not super hot-rod performance but better than some others you can buy and I have the option of running quieter than stock but as loud as chambered mufflers. :) Tom Hand
Last edited by Tom Hand; 12/08/11 07:07 PM.
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Kudakidd]
#1126534
12/10/11 12:35 AM
12/10/11 12:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
Strawdawg
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
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The post above yours gives a comparison as to how they relate. If you make enuf power, they will allow it with less restriction, but, you have to be making serious hp.
IMO, they sound different, but, not necessarily that much louder. Again, a lot of the "sound" depends upon engine combination, in my experience.
Steve
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Strawdawg]
#1126535
12/12/11 11:59 AM
12/12/11 11:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,265
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,265
IL
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Anyone know who makes Summit's turbo mufflers and how well they flow? I've got their 3" ones on my Fury, and some people on the turbo board suggested they may be part of my high back pressure measurements on my turbo system.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: furious70]
#1126536
12/28/11 06:07 PM
12/28/11 06:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,265
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,265
IL
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Is there much of a performance difference between the 14" and 20" bodies on the superturbos? Much of a decibel difference?
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1126537
12/28/11 08:01 PM
12/28/11 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,915
Witness Protection Program
Kudakidd
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,915
Witness Protection Program
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Quote:
Quote:
Funny how the little "single" chamber Flowmaster wasn't on that list, just the two and three chambers.
Here's what the single chamber FM looks like on the inside - looks like the exhaust instantly hits a wall upon arrival into the muffler. This causes a huge backlash, which is NOT good. I'd rather run a longer one! We tested 2 & 3 chamber, & Delta Flow FM's when I worked at Dynomax. The 2.5" AND 3" of these series FM's had flow rates of right around 350 sCFM. This translates into 318 loss-free HP with a dual exhaust setup. The Super Turbo 17748 (2.5" x 20" Hemi Super Turbo) has a flow rate of 415 sCFM, which = 378 loss-free HP dual exhaust. A straight-through stainless 2.5" Ultra Flow (#17289 offset/center) has a flow rate of 955 sCFM, which allows 868 loss-free HP on dual exhaust. This is the best flowing 2.5" x 20" oval, offset/center muffler on the market, bar none. The deflector setups inside the Flowmaster mufflers are horrible for flow - they totally kill the flow velocity of the exhaust. Buy them for sound, but not performance.
BTW, a Dynomax 3" x 20" offset/center oval Super Turbo #17769 flows 551 sCFM, which provides 500 loss-free HP on a dual exhaust. A 3" Welded Ultra Flow (20" body, offset/center) #17233 flows 1800 sCFM thus providing 1636 loss-free HP. You can decide from here!
Great write up! 
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: furious70]
#1126538
12/28/11 08:05 PM
12/28/11 08:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,170
Central NC
gch
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,170
Central NC
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Quote:
Is there much of a performance difference between the 14" and 20" bodies on the superturbos? Much of a decibel difference?
See above.
The longer case will flow better and be quieter(if that's what you want).
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Re: Dynomax mufflers VS Flowmasters
[Re: gch]
#1126539
12/28/11 10:04 PM
12/28/11 10:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,637
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,637
Rittman Ohio
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Most of this discussion is based around 2 1/2" exhaust but I have 3" on my car and I have plenty of room for the largest case they make. Is there a Dynomax muffler longer than 20" with a 3" in and out? Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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