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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: joedust451]
#1126271
12/03/11 01:44 AM
12/03/11 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
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The car stops poorly all ready and you want me to make the rear brakes work worse. No thanks. I'll stick with fixing the problem in the fornt.
Your not going to get the car to act like it has disc brakes, drum brakes alway stop poorly, plus your asking for opinions because you don't know what the problem is, i'm only trying to help as i've had this problem before on other drum brake cars, i'm not telling you to loosen the crap out of them, all it takes is backing them off a bit thats all or tighten up the fronts, its not rocket sience, just trial & error, but you do what you want.
My 69 383 GTS has 4 whl drum , I've never had the fronts lock only the rear.
People are so used to driving new cars they forget how bad the old brake systems really were .
Want to rule out the distribution block, take it out of the equation, tee the front lines to master cylinder line and do the same to the rear.
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: JohnRR]
#1126272
12/03/11 09:55 AM
12/03/11 09:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The car stops poorly all ready and you want me to make the rear brakes work worse. No thanks. I'll stick with fixing the problem in the fornt.
Your not going to get the car to act like it has disc brakes, drum brakes alway stop poorly, plus your asking for opinions because you don't know what the problem is, i'm only trying to help as i've had this problem before on other drum brake cars, i'm not telling you to loosen the crap out of them, all it takes is backing them off a bit thats all or tighten up the fronts, its not rocket sience, just trial & error, but you do what you want.
Want to rule out the distribution block, take it out of the equation, tee the front lines to master cylinder line and do the same to the rear.
That's a good idea.
FWIW, my fronts lock up no problem. Not after they're hot, but cold, yes. Of course, I just changed the shoes and drums. Before that, they were scary...
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: HemiRick]
#1126273
12/03/11 04:32 PM
12/03/11 04:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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Well it's not anything clogging the lines or brake valve as I had them off the car and apart and they are clean and clear....We have ordered a master cylinder as its the last thing it could be and its only $15. It'll be here Tues.
If it's the master it'll be the 1st time I've seen a master fail this way in 35 yrs of fixin cars.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1126278
12/03/11 07:44 PM
12/03/11 07:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
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I had exactly the same issue with my '70 Mustang (disc front brakes, but using this to make a point). No matter what I did, I couldn't get that car to lock the fronts. EVERYTHING was new. I even got very expensive cold stopper pads from Ca. In the end I went to AutoZone and got a set of $18 pads. Bang! Fixed. It may be as simple as brake shoe compound or having the drums turned.
Last night I got to thinking & was wondering if that is it. Not enough friction on tthe shoes
My guess is that's what it is. I really don't think it's the master cylinder. The OP hasn't answered yet if the drums were turned. If they are glazed, it could cause this, even with new shoes.
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: bobs66440]
#1126279
12/03/11 08:23 PM
12/03/11 08:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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No the drums have not been turned, they appear to be normal in all respects. They have brand new Autozone brake shoes in them. If the master doesnt help well try turning the drums next.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: HemiRick]
#1126280
12/03/11 10:25 PM
12/03/11 10:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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Something just occured to me that points that the MC may be the problem. 1st thing I did this morning was a test. I opened a rear bleeder valve and stepped hard on the brake pedal, thinking that if the piston in the brake valve was stuck in on the front side that this might push it back. It had no effect but the brake warning light did NOT come on either.
I think the brake warning light didn't come on because the front brake side of the master is not making proper pressure. I found another master and should have one tomm. instead of Tues.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: HemiRick]
#1126281
12/04/11 01:29 AM
12/04/11 01:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Something just occured to me that points that the MC may be the problem. 1st thing I did this morning was a test. I opened a rear bleeder valve and stepped hard on the brake pedal, thinking that if the piston in the brake valve was stuck in on the front side that this might push it back. It had no effect but the brake warning light did NOT come on either.
I think the brake warning light didn't come on because the front brake side of the master is not making proper pressure. I found another master and should have one tomm. instead of Tues.
You know, thinking about it, I'm not really sure how well those things work anyway. I mean, in theory, just bleeding the brakes should make it cut the pressure one way or the other. If it worked the way they say, you wouldn't be able to bleed the brakes! Every time you cracked open a bleeder, the flow would stop.
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: bobs66440]
#1126282
12/04/11 01:53 AM
12/04/11 01:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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The valve is not designed to restrict flow in any way shape or form and theres no way it can even if it mal functions. Its only function is to turn on the light.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: HemiRick]
#1126283
12/04/11 02:08 AM
12/04/11 02:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Rick when is that M/C going to get here
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: HemiRick]
#1126285
12/04/11 01:34 PM
12/04/11 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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OK I'll bring this up again. The rear brakes should lock up 1st but not at light or normal conditions.
The O.P. said;
The brakes are all freshly adjusted by me and are just off the drums.
This will do exactly what is happening. The wheels will lock up right away because of the sudden contact.
Remember drums are a self-energizing system.
Just off the drum is wrong. There must be a slight contact.
Am I wrong or is this procedure wrong? Also new shoes on shinny old drums is not a good idea get 'em turned it doesn't cost that much.
What kind of master are you getting for $15.oo? Just a little curious about this.
I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: bboogieart]
#1126286
12/04/11 01:38 PM
12/04/11 01:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Just off the drum is wrong. There must be a slight contact.
Am I wrong or is this procedure wrong?
I've always run mine with a little bit of drag.
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Also new shoes on shinny old drums is not a good idea get 'em turned it doesn't cost that much.
I agree
Quote:
What kind of master are you getting for $15.oo? Just a little curious about this.
Reman master cylinders at AutoZone are very cheap. I think I paid $23 for mine.
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Re: 71 Dart Drum brake problems
[Re: express]
#1126288
12/04/11 05:24 PM
12/04/11 05:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Something about cheap brake parts and Autozone doesn't sound good. Come on, buy some good parts, not cheap Auto Zone. I seen many pads wear out in less than a year for them.
I can't speak for their brake pads, other than theirs were the only ones that worked properly in my Mustang. I bought "expensive" ones and they were crap.
Regarding their master cylinders, they are reman factory ones, the same as anywhere else. I have one in my car for almost 2 years and it's working perfectly.I got brake drums for my pickup from NAPA because they are supposed to have better products and they came in warped. Then they screwed them up trying to turn them.
Just because you pay a lot of money, doesn't mean you are guaranteed a better product.
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I think the A-bodies are worse for locking up the rears too quickly.