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Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: brownout] #1113668
04/13/12 01:06 AM
04/13/12 01:06 AM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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Its amazing how the good tech in topics like these die so quickly...hopefully more people will post. Tim

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: astjp2] #1113669
04/13/12 02:21 AM
04/13/12 02:21 AM
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wine country
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8urvette Offline
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wine country
These posts are really encouraging me.
I have 68 barracuda,
543- victor heads, solid roller cam
abody 18 spline
8 3/4 -3.23
or dana 60 4.56


Everybody has told ill destroy the transmission, but you guys give me hope!!!

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: 8urvette] #1113670
04/13/12 08:56 AM
04/13/12 08:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,573
...gently down the stream
LAR_414 Offline OP
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LAR_414  Offline OP
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...gently down the stream
With traction, your rear will go before the trans.

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: 8urvette] #1113671
04/13/12 08:59 AM
04/13/12 08:59 AM
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Phila Pa
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scatpacktom Offline
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Just throwing this out there, but a 4 inch crank in a 340 block doesn't care one bit about the rpm drop going into second with a 3.09 gear. Only the tires care

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: LAR_414] #1113672
04/13/12 10:00 AM
04/13/12 10:00 AM
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wine country
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8urvette Offline
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Quote:

With traction, your rear will go before the trans.




i have the 8 3/4 in it, and the dana almost ready to go

I know traction will be an issue, i have 26 x 11.50 x 15 hoosier QTP and ss springs.... Ive been following the leaf link and think i may change my dana in and do this. The dana is mark williams 40 spline axles, richmond gears (4.56) and MW 40 spline spool. Mine will be a street car with occasional track abuse.

any chance with traction ill be into the 10's with a good tune on it?

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: 8urvette] #1113673
04/13/12 05:06 PM
04/13/12 05:06 PM
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Posts: 3,427
Toronto
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mshred Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

With traction, your rear will go before the trans.




i have the 8 3/4 in it, and the dana almost ready to go

I know traction will be an issue, i have 26 x 11.50 x 15 hoosier QTP and ss springs.... Ive been following the leaf link and think i may change my dana in and do this. The dana is mark williams 40 spline axles, richmond gears (4.56) and MW 40 spline spool. Mine will be a street car with occasional track abuse.

any chance with traction ill be into the 10's with a good tune on it?




With a Dana like that going behind it, I would be more worried about the transmission...its all going to be in the clutch, which you never mentioned which one your using...But I think with an engine like yours and the e/t's your after an adjustable would be the best way to get there without shattering every part behind the engine.

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: mshred] #1113674
04/13/12 05:19 PM
04/13/12 05:19 PM
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Posts: 4,573
...gently down the stream
LAR_414 Offline OP
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Remember, something has to give or parts will break due to the SHOCK.

I prefer a clutch that locks and doesn't slip. I rely on a bit of tire spin at the track to keep from breaking.

On the street it's almost impossible to get even the best tires to dead hook, so you'll probably be safe there.

If you are a pro racer or trying to bracket race, then the car is more consistent with a dead hook and a slipping clutch at the launch. That setup is more expensive and less streetable. Not saying it's not streetable, just LESS streetable.

7163660-Interiorsml.jpg (173 downloads)
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: LAR_414] #1113675
04/13/12 06:31 PM
04/13/12 06:31 PM
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wine country
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8urvette Offline
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My clutch is a soft hit, twin disc with hydraulic throw out bearing. When I bought it I was told it was easier on parts. But will hold 900-1000 ftlbs. We will see when i get it going....

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: 8urvette] #1113676
04/13/12 09:51 PM
04/13/12 09:51 PM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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I have a stock 10.5 inch 130 tooth pressure plate that was rebuilt and a standard disc going through a dana 60 using a dana 70 3.55 gears. This is going through a 23 spline 3.09 gearset if I can come up with all the parts. I still need a main shaft and a good input shaft. Tim

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: LAR_414] #1113677
04/13/12 11:11 PM
04/13/12 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,560
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Quote:

With traction, your rear will go before the trans.



I broke 2 23 spline third gears with an 8 3/4 rear in the car,the second trans broke when I power-shifted third and broke the grade 8 bolts off the pinion snubber when it slammed into the floor.
If you have not broken a 23 spline box you either have very little traction,a slipping clutch, or not enough horsepower
Gus

7164085-savoyburnout.jpg (80 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: scatpacktom] #1113678
04/14/12 02:00 AM
04/14/12 02:00 AM
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Posts: 6,020
Salem
Grizzly Offline
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Quote:

Just throwing this out there, but a 4 inch crank in a 340 block doesn't care one bit about the rpm drop going into second with a 3.09 gear. Only the tires care




Now that's what I wanted to hear.

How about the 1.67 (2nd) to 1:1 (3rd) shift?

I'm thinkin' that 4.25 crank with an aluminum flywheel would really do the deed.


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: Grizzly] #1113679
04/14/12 09:24 AM
04/14/12 09:24 AM
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Phila Pa
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scatpacktom Offline
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I don't know what your car weighs but the T/A used to be about 3450 and I have had a clutch assembly (wheel,disc,plate) as light as 24 lbs. It really comes down what your car will want. I put a alum wheel in the Duster it was about 11 lbs. Car didn't like it so I upped it to a 18 lb steel wheel, still didn't get along. Ended up with a 30 lb steel wheel. That car only makes about 300 hp.

I put the 3.09 in the car thinking it would slow the rear wheels down and get a some what heavy car moving. The problem I have with it is second gear comes a whole lot sooner too. When the track is killer I can use it, when the track sucks you look like a idiot. Course none of that applies to a set of slicks.

So like anything else it is about the combo

Last edited by scatpacktom; 04/14/12 09:31 AM.
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: scatpacktom] #1113680
04/14/12 10:14 AM
04/14/12 10:14 AM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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sweden
Quote:

Just throwing this out there, but a 4 inch crank in a 340 block doesn't care one bit about the rpm drop going into second with a 3.09 gear. Only the tires care




I dont understand what you mean but i cant see how it would be better than the 2.66 first.
Even if a 4 incher there will not be much power at 4300 rpms.
And besides 4 inchers doesnt like to turn high rpms.
Mine is out of power at max 6500 so useing the 3.09 rpms would drop to about 4000 i wouldnt want that.
Im no pro builder but i dont think you can build a motor with that broad power range.

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1113681
04/14/12 11:44 AM
04/14/12 11:44 AM
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South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline
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Quote:

If you have not broken a 23 spline box you either have very little traction,a slipping clutch, or not enough horsepower




NEVER broke a 2.66 trans. Did break input shafts on 2 3.09 transmissions. I guess my slicks are slipping, along with my clutch and I'm down on horsepower......... what to do to get 2 1/2 tenths and a 10 second run ????????


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: brownout] #1113682
04/14/12 01:03 PM
04/14/12 01:03 PM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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I had to check the math, its 6000 to 4308 with the 2.66 to 1.91 First gear tranny shift into second, Its 3792 rpms for the 3.09 to 1.92 shift. I verified with the Wallace racing calculator. Tim

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: LAR_414] #1113683
04/14/12 01:22 PM
04/14/12 01:22 PM
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Posts: 1,409
Ont. Canada
10.90 Racer Offline
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Quote:

Remember, something has to give or parts will break due to the SHOCK.

I prefer a clutch that locks and doesn't slip. I rely on a bit of tire spin at the track to keep from breaking.

On the street it's almost impossible to get even the best tires to dead hook, so you'll probably be safe there.

If you are a pro racer or trying to bracket race, then the car is more consistent with a dead hook and a slipping clutch at the launch. That setup is more expensive and less streetable. Not saying it's not streetable, just LESS streetable.




An adjustable B&B with sintered iron disk is a good Street strip compromise............

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: scatpacktom] #1113684
04/14/12 01:46 PM
04/14/12 01:46 PM
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Posts: 6,020
Salem
Grizzly Offline
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Salem
Tom:

The aluminum flywheel idea was something that I had hoped would bring the rpms down faster so the wide gear ratio box could be shifted quicker.

That '72 Swinger that I linked above is running the 833OD. From doing a bit of searching he runs 13.40 with that car. You can hear him hit his limiter in first and then when he grabs second the slanty just grunts it out and keeps on pulling. His launch looked fine to me, I dunno, I was sure impressed.

If a slant-six can handle those wide ratios, I'm sure a 426 to 440 small block should just have no problems at all, like you mentioned above.


I have an 833OD on my bench and if I can ever find a 318 bell housing for it, it's going behind my 340 six pack to see what it can do. One things for sure: that .71 is sure going to be nice for the 2 hour ride home.


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: Grizzly] #1113685
04/14/12 01:59 PM
04/14/12 01:59 PM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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You can have the Input bearing retainer turned down in a Lathe to the 4.807 and it should fit the six pack bellhousing. Tim

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: astjp2] #1113686
04/14/12 02:10 PM
04/14/12 02:10 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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sweden
Uhhm well ofcourse every ratios buildt work obviosly, but i cant imagine it being optimal for racing.

Re: A-833 4 speed racers...Setup? [Re: sshemi] #1113687
04/14/12 02:15 PM
04/14/12 02:15 PM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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I found this article collection, good reading but the pics are hard to see. Tim

http://www.badzracing.com/mopar-tech/collection_tech_01-06_4speed.pdf

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