Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: dogdays]
#1097142
10/19/11 06:42 PM
10/19/11 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Yeah, magical thinking strikes again! The 2-barrel carb ratings are at 3" Hg depression, the 4-barrel at 1.5" Hg. So to convert flow from 2-barrel terms to 4-barrel terms you have to divide by the square root of 2. The ACTUAL combined CFM of the three 6-pack carbs, RATED AS A 4-BARREL, is 955 cfm.
Now on to the article that Dpelletier referenced. The engine was a 383. You don't have to be a Mopar nut to know that 383 and 440 intakes are different. But given that the article was about 383 intakes, the results are somewhat favorable for the 6-pack. In average over 2500 - 6000 rpm it made the highest torque by 1 lb-ft over the Torker 383 and tied the Torker 383 in average horsepower. In peak horsepower the 6-pack was beaten by the TM6, Performer RPM, Victor 383, Torker 383, Weiand High Ram single 4-barrel, Street Dominator and the M1 Single Plane. So it seems that there is truth in the contention that a good single 4-barrel will make more power on a good manifold.
There are flow problems inherent to the 6-pack design that limit its power potential on larger or higher revving engines. Here's a quote from the referenced article: "We've seen this intake lose a lot of power compared to modern four-barrel intakes on bigger engines or ones with more rpm, but it seemed we just hit a really happy spot with our little 395ci big-block under 6,000 rpm."
R.
Well, anything can be "spinned", but;
- NOW you have the math right!
- Yes, it's a 383, but the design is substantially the same and it IS a 450hp setup that compares directly to the flow requirements for 440's in the same HP range.
- If you look at the hp and torque together, the little bit of HP that the 6 pack gives up to the 4bbl manifolds you mentioned is more than made up for by increased torque in almost all cases.....so to say that "a good single 4bbl on a good intake will make more power" is NOT a true statement IMO. I could easily say that the 6 pack manifold and carbs makes more peak hp and torque than all but the top 1 or two 4bbl setups which are equal at best.
The bottom line is that to say a 4bbl makes more power "9 times out of 10" is an oversimplification at the very least and plain wrong at the worst.
The only disadvantage to a 6 pack on a 450ish HP B or RB is cost and for those of us that prefer our cars to be stock (or at least stock appearing) those other setups are a non-starter.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1097145
10/19/11 07:38 PM
10/19/11 07:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,806 Northern NJ
StukaJU87
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,806
Northern NJ
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I would like to do a 6 pack and 4 speed conversion on my wagon sometime down the road. Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
Scott
1969 Super Bee, 383/4 speed
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: StukaJU87]
#1097147
10/19/11 08:45 PM
10/19/11 08:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
I would like to do a 6 pack and 4 speed conversion on my wagon sometime down the road.
Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
i would highly doubt it especially if it's on a 440 with a stockish air cleaner.
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: DPelletier]
#1097150
10/20/11 01:35 AM
10/20/11 01:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
The bottom line is that to say a 4bbl makes more power "9 times out of 10" is an oversimplification at the very least and plain wrong at the worst.
I think the statement should be something more like "9 times out of 10 on a street or street/strip big block, a good 4bbl intake with a decent carb will make comparable power to a 6-pack." Of course the 6-pack will do it with a much higher bling factor and a much higher cost.
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1097151
10/20/11 01:56 AM
10/20/11 01:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'm convinced & am going to save my money/keep the 4bbl. The bling would be nice but I've got other areas that need attention/money. k.i.s.s. Fix the worst/inadequate areas 1st
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1097152
10/20/11 08:08 AM
10/20/11 08:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
I would like to do a 6 pack and 4 speed conversion on my wagon sometime down the road.
Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
i would highly doubt it especially if it's on a 440 with a stockish air cleaner.
why? it sits no higher than a hemi and t hey fit under a flat hood. My 6-pack fit fine under my flat charger hood...untill I added Stage VI heads w/ spacers and carb plates for the meth injection.
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1097153
10/20/11 08:15 AM
10/20/11 08:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would like to do a 6 pack and 4 speed conversion on my wagon sometime down the road.
Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
i would highly doubt it especially if it's on a 440 with a stockish air cleaner.
why? it sits no higher than a hemi and t hey fit under a flat hood. My 6-pack fit fine under my flat charger hood...untill I added Stage VI heads w/ spacers and carb plates for the meth injection.
i honestly don't know if it would fit........
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: StukaJU87]
#1097154
10/20/11 09:50 AM
10/20/11 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,507 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,507
It's a dry heat
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Quote:
Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
Yes, it'll fit just fine - it sits no higher than a 440 4bbl air grabber air cleaner
And as for WOW factor. sorry, but this would be hard to beat. BUT,,,,, this is a LOOOOOONG way from stock
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: dogdays]
#1097155
10/20/11 10:45 AM
10/20/11 10:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160
Mass
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Quote:
I don't think there is any question about the "WOW!" factor, but a good single 4-barrel on a decent intake will put a 6-pack on the trailer 9 times out of 10. The 6-pack intake has some flow problems that are almost impossible to deal with.
R.
Proof is always in the "pudding" .....at an A12 shootout bring your 68-70 comparable 4 BBl equipped B body and see who gets spanked
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1097156
10/20/11 10:47 AM
10/20/11 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't think there is any question about the "WOW!" factor, but a good single 4-barrel on a decent intake will put a 6-pack on the trailer 9 times out of 10. The 6-pack intake has some flow problems that are almost impossible to deal with.
R.
Proof is always in the "pudding" .....at an A12 shootout bring your 68-70 comparable 4 BBl equipped B body and see who gets spanked
bring it. I'll be at MIR on the 29th.
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1097157
10/20/11 11:25 AM
10/20/11 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would like to do a 6 pack and 4 speed conversion on my wagon sometime down the road.
Would a 6 pack setup fit under a stock 69 RR hood? I have the repro A12 hood also if it won't. Just wondering.
i would highly doubt it especially if it's on a 440 with a stockish air cleaner.
why? it sits no higher than a hemi and t hey fit under a flat hood. My 6-pack fit fine under my flat charger hood...untill I added Stage VI heads w/ spacers and carb plates for the meth injection.
i honestly don't know if it would fit........
It will fit fine , the satellite is the same body platform as a RR , especially if he has a RR hood .
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Re: Looking for a 440 six pack
[Re: gtx6970]
#1097159
10/21/11 08:25 AM
10/21/11 08:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
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Quote:
And as for WOW factor. sorry, but this would be hard to beat. BUT,,,,, this is a LOOOOOONG way from stock
With tall valve covers and a large oval air cleaner set-up I don't see a Six Pack adding any 'wow factor' over a 4-bbl. set-up with the same tall valve covers and RB oval air cleaner.
Quote:
Proof is always in the "pudding" .....at an A12 shootout bring your 68-70 comparable 4 BBl equipped B body and see who gets spanked
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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