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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072733 09/12/11 02:59 PM 09/12/11 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you.	Quote: The engine is definetly overheating. The engine has been so hot in the past (from idling) that it has melted the foam steering column gasket that goes between the firewall and the base mount of the steering column, plus, like I've mentioned previously the engine begins to spark-knock and the amount of heat coming off of the engine is dramatic. It gets so hot that even with leather "Mechanix" gloves on the carb throttle is too hot to touch for very long. I haven't put a laser temp gage on the block to see what the degrees are, but belive me, it is very hot. I have seen these off and on , do you have an ACTUAL TEMP READING ??? till then you could be chasing the wrong problem. also how long are you leaving it sitting "idling" ??? The steering column foam is being melted by the heat off the EXHAUST MANIFOLDS , not the engine itself ...

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: JohnRR] #1072734 09/12/11 06:20 PM 09/12/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: Quote: The engine is definetly overheating. The engine has been so hot in the past (from idling) that it has melted the foam steering column gasket that goes between the firewall and the base mount of the steering column, plus, like I've mentioned previously the engine begins to spark-knock and the amount of heat coming off of the engine is dramatic. It gets so hot that even with leather "Mechanix" gloves on the carb throttle is too hot to touch for very long. I haven't put a laser temp gage on the block to see what the degrees are, but belive me, it is very hot. I have seen these off and on , do you have an ACTUAL TEMP READING ??? till then you could be chasing the wrong problem. also how long are you leaving it sitting "idling" ??? The steering column foam is being melted by the heat off the EXHAUST MANIFOLDS , not the engine itself ... are you actually over-heating or is the 'reflected' heat of the engine your concern?

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: mikemee1331] #1072735 09/13/11 06:05 PM 09/13/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	My engine is overheating no ifs, ands, or buts. It's not radiant heat etc. It just slowly gets hotter and hotter if left at idle on a hot day. It doesn�t overheat if the temp is 80 degrees or less. One year at the Nationals I got caught in traffic and about burned up the engine before I could get it shut down (spark knocking, coolant overflowing, etc). However, I am confident the incorrect water pump has been my problem all along (6 vane impeller for A/C application on a non-A/C engine). I believe when I install the correct 8 vane pump it will cool properly. It only makes sense that the engine would overheat slowly at idle with the lower volume 6 blade pump. I bought two pumps, one from NAPA and one from Year One. The year one looks to have the impeller set up for counter clock-wise rotation while the NAPA pump is set up for clock-wise rotation (they also sell the same pump for counter clock-wise rotation with an impeller that looks like the Year-One pump. For my application, I need clock-wise rotation. However, Year-One only lists this pump for the "383 - 440" application? I'm going with the NAPA pump. 6824928-NAPA-YearOneWaterPump(small).jpg (129 downloads)

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072736 09/13/11 07:06 PM 09/13/11 07:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	It sounds like a solid diagnosis and the right place to start. If it cools ok when moving (sounds like it does) that usually means the radiator is OK. Get the right water pump and check again. Next up, if it still runs a bit warm is airflow - fan & shroud.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072737 09/13/11 11:24 PM 09/13/11 11:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,119 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,119 Valencia, España	Quote: It only makes sense that the engine would overheat slowly at idle with the lower volume 6 blade pump. as far I can tell is not about low or high volume, is related about the size of the pulley. A/C cars got smaller pulleys on Water pump, so at same RPMs will spin faster being 6 vanes Quote: I bought two pumps, one from NAPA and one from Year One. The year one looks to have the impeller set up for counter clock-wise rotation while the NAPA pump is set up for clock-wise rotation (they also sell the same pump for counter clock-wise rotation with an impeller that looks like the Year-One pump. For my application, I need clock-wise rotation. However, Year-One only lists this pump for the "383 - 440" application? I'm going with the NAPA pump. This is very interesting... CW against CCW talking about same 8 vanes pump... aren't all engines with regular belts the same rotation no matter the belt setup with or without A/C ? now there is something said by 6bblgt what is true... blades are 90 degrees, and if you install an "anti-cavitation" plate it will make work the impellers the same no matter how are cut the vanes if faced CW or CCW With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: NachoRT74] #1072738 09/14/11 08:51 AM 09/14/11 08:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you.	Quote: Quote: It only makes sense that the engine would overheat slowly at idle with the lower volume 6 blade pump. as far I can tell is not about low or high volume, is related about the size of the pulley. A/C cars got smaller pulleys on Water pump, so at same RPMs will spin faster being 6 vanes Quote: I bought two pumps, one from NAPA and one from Year One. The year one looks to have the impeller set up for counter clock-wise rotation while the NAPA pump is set up for clock-wise rotation (they also sell the same pump for counter clock-wise rotation with an impeller that looks like the Year-One pump. For my application, I need clock-wise rotation. However, Year-One only lists this pump for the "383 - 440" application? I'm going with the NAPA pump. This is very interesting... CW against CCW talking about same 8 vanes pump... aren't all engines with regular belts the same rotation no matter the belt setup with or without A/C ? now there is something said by 6bblgt what is true... blades are 90 degrees, and if you install an "anti-cavitation" plate it will make work the impellers the same no matter how are cut the vanes if faced CW or CCW There is no factory serpentine setup for a big block mopar so I can't see the aftermarket making a CW and CCW pump , those pumps will push water no matter what direction they spin .

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: JohnRR] #1072739 09/14/11 09:03 AM 09/14/11 09:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: There is no factory serpentine setup for a big block mopar so I can't see the aftermarket making a CW and CCW pump , those pumps will push water no matter what direction they spin . it's the 90 deg "paddle" that does the work & adding the anticav plate makes it a bit more efficient & is easy 2 do & reduces what the engineers call "parasitic recirculation" at all speeds and helps w cav at high speeds. It helps a little bit & is easy/cheap 2 do but mainly the others needs 2 b right (overdriven WP pulley imo) & enough airflow, adequate radiator live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072740 09/14/11 09:36 AM 09/14/11 09:36 AM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA RoadRunnerJD master
RoadRunnerJD master Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA	Hemi's came with 6 blade impellers. I would venture a guess that you have something else causing your overheating. I don't know about the orientation of the blades where one seems to be backwards? That could be a problem but it's not because you only had a 6 blade impeller. There is something more serious going on for your engine to overheat that badly.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: A12] #1072741 09/14/11 10:02 AM 09/14/11 10:02 AM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA RoadRunnerJD master
RoadRunnerJD master Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA	Quote: Are there flow ratings available for the two water pumps? Why does it appear that the A/C pump would flow less than a non-A/C pump, I would think it would be the exact opposite need. I can see that the A/C pump would have less drag or resistance than the non-A/C pump and can understand that would be important because of the increased drag of the A/C system but why such a big difference? What is the flow rate difference between the two?? I read up on this a long time ago. If you move the coolant through the motor too fast, it does not allow the water/coolant adequate time to transfer the heat. Hemi's put out more heat and only have a 6 blade impeller just for that reason...to slow the flow down a little. I think Chrysler engineers also increased the diameter of the Hemi crank pulley and reduced the diameter of the water pump pulley from 68- 69 to try to get the optimum rpm's for the water pump? I believe 383/440 HP's and A/C equipped cars had 8 blade impellers. It's a little hard to understand. On the otherhand, I would be concerned about the backwards configuration of the impeller too? It just does not look right.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #1072742 09/14/11 11:00 AM 09/14/11 11:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,048 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,048 S.E. Michigan	I ran a 6 blade AC water pump on the 440 that used to be in my GTX for about 14 years. The first one had 93,000 miles on it when I installed it, it started leaking about 10 years later. I replaced it with another 6 blade from the parts store. I always used non/ac pulleys. In 14 years, many of which were daily driven (for a few years the GTX was my only transportation) the only heating problems I ever had were due to either me not using the fan shroud, or the radiator being clogged. Even when the first water pump leaked, it did not overheat. So I guess I don't agree with the whole diagnosis, but good luck with it nonetheless. Rich H. Esse Quam Videri

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: ZIPPY] #1072743 09/15/11 05:46 PM 09/15/11 05:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	Thanks for the encouragement Zippy I hope the correct pump solves the problem. I have heard your story before, using the wrong pump application and not having a problem. I wish that was the case with me, I hate this problem. But, if it really didn't make any difference which pump should be used, why would Chrysler go to the expense of installing two different pumps and state "boldly" in their service manual on page 7-4 "do not use a non-A/C pump on an A/C engine and visa versa"? It must make a difference or they would not go to the trouble and expense of training personnel and noting that in their manaual. We'll find out soon, I received my radiator back from Glen Ray Radiator today and they said it solid and flowing fine. So I should have it together pretty soon but if the wather turns cool I won't know if it over heats until we have a 90+ day.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072744 09/15/11 05:57 PM 09/15/11 05:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Holler (in this thread) how it turns out. Yes Ma had their recommendations on that & I'm certainly not an engineer (or even close 2 it) but I haven't seen a prob w cavitation & I gotta go w an 8 blader/smallest WP pulley I can find/fit but I always use an added anticav plate esp on a SB live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: RapidRobert] #1072745 09/29/11 06:04 PM 09/29/11 06:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	RR, got the engine together last Monday afternoon. Before replacing the coolant with fresh anti-freeze, I drained the block on both sides, left the drain plugs out and ran water through it for about 15 min to be sure no obstructions existed. After filling with anti-freeze let the engine idle for about 30 minutes or so, no over heating or close to over heating issues, however, the temp in Missouri was 67 degrees...so I might have to wait until next summer to determine if changing to the correct water pump will fix my over heating problem. Good news is no leaks...I need to take her out for a drive now. 6848229-EngineCompartment-small.jpg (72 downloads)

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072746 09/29/11 08:11 PM 09/29/11 08:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: let the engine idle for about 30 minutes or so, no over heating or close to over heating issues, Sounds promising Even at 67 deg I'd think after 30 minutes it'd be acting up if we were not good now live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: RapidRobert] #1072747 08/17/12 10:43 AM 08/17/12 10:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	Well, summer has almost come and gone. The Mopar Nationals are over and I can again turn my attention to unbolting parts off of my engine and try to fix the overheating problem. All the fixes I did last fall have had no change, the engine is still over heating at idle. The change in water pumps did not solve the issue. The only thing I can think of is that there MUST be a blockage in the coolant jackets in the block. To test this I am planning on installing a specialized part the custom rodders use called "Cool View. See it at "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW7PyU-kPtU&feature=related. It is like a glass thermostat housing that will let you veiw the termostat in operation and the coolant running through it. If I don't have coolant flowing after all that I've done, the coolant blockage has to be in the block. The only other thing I can think of is if the coolant isn't flowing, maybe it could be a defective water pump housing (I've checked everything else) and maybe the coolant is just cavatating in the housing because the clearance is too great between the housing walls and pump impeller (checked the impeller blade diameter to the service manual before installing and it was correct)? I don't know, I'm trying to think outside the box here? Has anyone ever had a defective waterpump housing casting where it wouldn't let the water pump do its job? Still looking for a solution.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072748 08/17/12 11:02 AM 08/17/12 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,872 albany ny 0 05dakota I Live Here
05dakota I Live Here 0 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,872 albany ny	do you have fan shroud?

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072749 08/17/12 11:04 AM 08/17/12 11:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,472 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,472 So Cal	What about the distributor and timing curve... A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud... Still a problem... I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance... I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up.. It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave.. Check the basics... Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system.. Just my $0.02...

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 05dakota] #1072750 08/17/12 11:12 AM 08/17/12 11:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	Quote: do you have fan shroud? Yes

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Sinitro] #1072751 08/17/12 11:15 AM 08/17/12 11:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	Quote: What about the distributor and timing curve... A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud... Still a problem... I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance... I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up.. It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave.. Check the basics... Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system.. Just my $0.02... Good point and easy to check, I will definitely check that out, thank you.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Sinitro] #1072752 08/17/12 12:10 PM 08/17/12 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,324 A gulag near you.	Quote: What about the distributor and timing curve... A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud... Still a problem... I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance... I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up.. It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave.. Check the basics... Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system.. Just my $0.02... Is this correct ? That would only be 25 TOTAL, I can see it running even hotter ?????

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