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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: hemiiroc]
#1069961
09/06/11 08:01 AM
09/06/11 08:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,034
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,034
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I wanted to suggest 440-1 heads, but to run 8.50s in all conditions (heat) the package would be on the edge. better off with 572-13 heads or B1s. Run 572 cubes which should work well with the glide. Keep the lift at a gross of .800 to start, but be sure and run a 1.70 or higher ratio rocker on the intake for good choices in lobe designs for the cam. The valve train is one area that is going to cost. Trying to save money here is false economy. Jesel, T& D come to mind, I run Jesel.
I here there are hollow stem steel valves being made, which is a good idea to keep costs down and still have good valve control. Cheaper than Ti for sure. Cam duration can be a little less than you might think, say 280 @ .050 on the intakes, to keep the motor happy in the mid range and with the 13/1 compression. The goal would be a shift point of 6800 rpm to keep this motor alive for many happy runs.
Put a 3x or B1 single intake on it, a Terminator injecter and set it up for E85.
These mega blocks and other aftermarket iron big blocks are going to add a lot of weight. Check into just how much, and how much you could lighten them at a reasonable cost. While you are lightening the block, have the pushrod clearance increased. A lot of us have had to redo this, and it Ain't fun when you are working with a short block you have to disassemble again to fix this. You can use a 7.1 rod to keep the bob weight down, and 13/1 compression is easy to get with a flat top piston. A good flat top with .043/.043/3/16 low ten oil rings is what I run, and works very well. A vacuum pump is needed to make this work the best. Put some 2 1/4 by 34 x 4 inc headers on it and you should have a winner.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/06/11 08:15 AM.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: gregsdart]
#1069965
09/06/11 08:33 AM
09/06/11 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
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I would stick with Race Fuel.....Pump Fuel Blends are too inconsistant IMO for serious bracket racing 
Rickster
True, but if you buy it in bulk after testing you will be good to go.
I would still be apprehensive in a serious bracket race program where prior run history is a major factor in predicting dial-ins....JMO
Rickster
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: 604 Hemi GTX]
#1069966
09/06/11 08:37 AM
09/06/11 08:37 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
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Megablock, 540 cubes, B1 Originals with a mild roller and a valve train good enough to bracket race alot. And preferably pump gas or E85 since you do race alot.
What he said only 572 B1's, 13-1, race gas or E85, 900HP easy. PS Do not dyno on E85, you won't need to and it's too hard on the motor, gas is OK.
Just curious why you wouldn't dyno the motor with E85.
I burnt pistons once on a dyno with E85 and I believe it's because the fuel system (magnafuel 500) couldn't handle the fuel delivery on the dyno. The load a dyno puts on a motor is massive and it will go lean on E85 if the fuel system doesn't keep up. But, I'm sure all of you that have done it won't agree, so good luck with your build.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: gregsdart]
#1069968
09/06/11 08:49 AM
09/06/11 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would stick with Race Fuel.....Pump Fuel Blends are too inconsistant IMO for serious bracket racing
Rickster
True, but if you buy it in bulk after testing you will be good to go.
I would still be apprehensive in a serious bracket race program where prior run history is a major factor in predicting dial-ins....JMO
Rickster
440Jim and others are doing extremely well with E85. There is no down side to running E85 in brackets, as long as you test and buy by the barrel for consistency. Fuel savings are considerable, which is a big deal if you run a lot of races.
Sorry for the confusion.....I was making reference to pump gas....not E85. In that case...why not just run Alky...even more cost effective....??????
Rickster
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: rickstershemi]
#1069969
09/06/11 08:56 AM
09/06/11 08:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,034
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,034
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Cost of methanol has gotten out of hand. Best price
i have found is $175 for a barrel, or about $3.20 a gallon. At three passes out of a 5 gallon jug that adds up. Guys report getting about twice as many passes on E85, at about the same price? If I ran more races and had a tad less compression, I would switch. But at 15/1, I don't think E85 is going to work well.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/06/11 08:58 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: gregsdart]
#1069970
09/06/11 09:05 AM
09/06/11 09:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Cost of methanol has gotten out of hand. Best price
i have found is $175 for a barrel, or about $3.20 a gallon. At three passes out of a 5 gallon jug that adds up. Guys report getting about twice as many passes on E85, at about the same price? If I ran more races and had a tad less compression, I would switch. But at 15/1, I don't think E85 is going to work well.
Might just be a geographic supply thing around here (E85) I haven't heard of anyone running it at any of our local tracks here in FLA......
Rickster
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: rickstershemi]
#1069973
09/06/11 09:29 AM
09/06/11 09:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,698
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,698
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
Cost of methanol has gotten out of hand. Best price
i have found is $175 for a barrel, or about $3.20 a gallon. At three passes out of a 5 gallon jug that adds up. Guys report getting about twice as many passes on E85, at about the same price? If I ran more races and had a tad less compression, I would switch. But at 15/1, I don't think E85 is going to work well.
Might just be a geographic supply thing around here (E85) I haven't heard of anyone running it at any of our local tracks here in FLA......
Rickster
E85 isn't readily available in Florida because of the humidity. As we all know alcohol sucks the moisture out of the air so there are problems with storing E85 around here. I'd love to run it but it's just not practical here.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: AndyF]
#1069974
09/06/11 09:45 AM
09/06/11 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Quote:
I would like to maintain low compression if possible, pump gas mix/ E85. 
Pump gas makes the 850 goal more difficult. E85 also adds cost unless you already have a fuel system that is designed for it. I'd really think hard about the fuel choice before you get to far into the engine design.
im curiouse to why 850hp would be hard,when higher compression bb's make 1100 to 1200hp comp bump of 3 pts shouldn't be a 400 or 500 hp increase 
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1069978
09/06/11 01:56 PM
09/06/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,204
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,204
PA.
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Take a 440HP block and bore it .030 over TRW pop up pistons stock stroke HP crank 6 pac rods with direct connection bolts 590 purple shaft cam 906 heads (ported to the max) AFB carb Dyno engine. CORRECT the air to whatever you want. 800+ horsepower Just never take it to the track or it will just be another 800+ DYNO HP engine that we read about everyday that only runs 10's. 
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1069979
09/06/11 02:26 PM
09/06/11 02:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,475
Dandridge TN
Dabee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,475
Dandridge TN
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Quote:
Take a 440HP block and bore it .030 over
TRW pop up pistons
stock stroke HP crank
6 pac rods with direct connection bolts
590 purple shaft cam
906 heads (ported to the max)
AFB carb
Dyno engine. CORRECT the air to whatever you want.
800+ horsepower
Just never take it to the track or it will just be another 800+ DYNO HP engine that we read about everyday that only runs 10's.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: bwdst6]
#1069980
09/06/11 02:41 PM
09/06/11 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,105
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,105
Oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
im curiouse to why 850hp would be hard,when higher compression bb's make 1100 to 1200hp comp bump of 3 pts shouldn't be a 400 or 500 hp increase
I had the exact same thought. 850 hp should be easy with a 572"+ engine!
Take a look at the Indy crate engines. Their 605 inch pump gas motors make 750 hp. Their 572 race gas motors make 900+ hp.
The aftermarket business is primarily focused on building race gas type parts so that is the easiest (cheapest) way to go. The OP asked for 850 HP in the most economical package. A race gas engine would be the most economical package. 572 cubes, -1 heads, cast intake with a Dominator carb, 14:1 compression, solid roller, etc. That would be the way to make 850 hp. Probably cost about $20,000 with new parts.
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