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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RATTRAP]
#1062364
08/24/11 09:20 PM
08/24/11 09:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I was wondering about the digitial box cause mine was pulling out 20* timing locked out which is too much! I unhooked it and starts good now...
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RATTRAP]
#1062365
08/24/11 09:41 PM
08/24/11 09:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Is the msd a digital-6 ?
Yes it is. I had the Mopar electronic and orange box in at first. I just did install the MSD. It was doing the same with both ignition systems tho. What do you mean about the timing with this box? Might be onto something! Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: moparniac]
#1062366
08/24/11 09:44 PM
08/24/11 09:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
I was wondering about the digitial box cause mine was pulling out 20* timing locked out which is too much! I unhooked it and starts good now...
Hello, Please explain this to me. Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062367
08/24/11 09:44 PM
08/24/11 09:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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if your at 16* initial and you have the start retard hooked up its pulling 20* out... my buddy sent his back to only pull out 10*, Im gonna prolly do that eventually!
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Sport440]
#1062368
08/24/11 10:46 PM
08/24/11 10:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,329
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,329
St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Ive seen this alot. People stab in the distributer at the "SAME TDC" where the Cam was degreed at.
The CAM is degreed on the overlap cycle between the exhaust and intake. The Distributer is Timed on the Comp stroke TDC. Witch is 180* at the distributer. Ive seen engines Run and pop 180* off but never seen them Driven.
Definately check to see what TDC stroke cycle your distributer is fireing on number 1.
To test for that with the engine together. Pull the number one plug. Put your tumb over the hole. Bump the starter till you feel compression pulse of air. Stop and then rotate the crank to TDC.
Now check your distributers rotor to see what cylinder its pointing at. 
Yep i'm guilty of this. Ran but ran very poor. Didn't make it much past the driveway.
Damon
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: mopardamo]
#1062369
08/24/11 11:01 PM
08/24/11 11:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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I'm not sure which distributor you are running,but if you can,lock out the mechanical advance and bump the total timing back up to 35 or so and see if it helps.This would be after verifying everything else already stated. If that fixes it,you can go back and add in some mechanical advance and readjust a little at a time until you get it all dialed in  Keith
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062370
08/24/11 11:20 PM
08/24/11 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
G_bob
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
Hi Everyone. Great suggestions. I'm going to do a compression test tomorrow. To answer some questions. The damper is new SFI and I did check it to TDC, right on zero. I have cranked the engine and watched valve train, all open and close as the should. I admit, may have valves too tight / too loose. I did 3/4 turn past zero lash. The response about using intake or exh lobe to degree cam has me thinking tho! I have the timing set with multiple key ways on the crank gear. I advanced that gear to the 2 deg advance key to the cam dot. The cam was at 109 dot-to-dot, so I advanced it 2 deg to be at 107. I have double/triple checked the firing order. Now, the dist drive gear. I dropped the drive gear in and then lined up plug wire #1 to start engine. I wouldn't think the gear placement would matter as long as #1 line up at TDC. I have tried advancing the dist untill the eng cranked hard, no difference. From the beginning, I have had the "rattling" type noise. Sounds like piston "slap" doesn't get any better after engine is warmed. IS this normal for roller rockers / alumn heads? Thanks again everyone! Jeff
We are talking a hydraulic cam here, right?
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: BlownHemiCharger]
#1062372
08/24/11 11:53 PM
08/24/11 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about.
Just how do you manage to install the cam 180 out? You index the cam to the crank, and the distributor to the cam and TDC. Draw a line through the center of the crank and cam, and you line the dots (arrows, whatever) on that line. At this point it doesen't matter if the dot on the cam is at the top or bottom, as long as it's on the line. Turn the crank one full turn, put the crank dot on the line, and the cam will be on the line, too - again, either at the top or bottom, the opposite of what it was. It's either right both ways, or wrong both ways. Then you line up the crank on TDC, both #1 valves closed, and drop the dist (pump drive gear on a Mopar) with the rotor aimed at #1 on the cap, and the firing order to match the cam. You can have the dist 180 off, but not the CAM, and it won't run with the dist 180 off.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1062374
08/25/11 07:40 AM
08/25/11 07:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about.
Just how do you manage to install the cam 180 out? You index the cam to the crank, and the distributor to the cam and TDC. Draw a line through the center of the crank and cam, and you line the dots (arrows, whatever) on that line. At this point it doesen't matter if the dot on the cam is at the top or bottom, as long as it's on the line. Turn the crank one full turn, put the crank dot on the line, and the cam will be on the line, too - again, either at the top or bottom, the opposite of what it was. It's either right both ways, or wrong both ways. Then you line up the crank on TDC, both #1 valves closed, and drop the dist (pump drive gear on a Mopar) with the rotor aimed at #1 on the cap, and the firing order to match the cam. You can have the dist 180 off, but not the CAM, and it won't run with the dist 180 off.
Good Morning everyone! I'm sure the cam is not 180 deg out. It would not run at all. I'm thinking it a tooth or 3 off from where I did the degree procedure. I've went over this build in my mind 100 times, that was the only part I wasn't 100% comfortable with. I don't think it has anything to do with the MSD, because it ran the same with the Mopar stuff. The box is a MSD Digital 6AL with rev limiter, MSD Pro Billet dist, Blaster SS coil. Wired up exactly per instructions.
The cam is hydraulic and is a 4 speed. I forgot that info!
I'm going to double check (again) all the simple stuff, then prob pull the cover. I've even thought of a solid cam. Any thought about the Mopar Purple # P4120659 528lift, 284 duration. Or, any other thoughts. Thanks again!! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dart451]
#1062377
08/25/11 08:22 AM
08/25/11 08:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 742
Anderson, IN
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Hey Guy's, I don't see any way I could have the MSD stuff wired wrong. Pretty simple plug and play. Pick-up wires plug directly into dist plug, red to bat +, blk to bat -, orange to coil +, small black to coil - plugs, white not used, grey to my tach. If this is wrong, please advise me how it is to be. Also, how to get a hold of Scott Brown for a cam recommendation? Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062378
08/25/11 08:24 AM
08/25/11 08:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Does the damper have full 360 degrees on it... if so you can do a quick check on the cam with the damper... pull the drivers side valve cover and use a dial indicator on the retainer 
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062379
08/25/11 08:29 AM
08/25/11 08:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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When you set up the cam timing was the crank keyway straight up or was it offset to approximately the 1:30 position.... Stupid question but I've seen it do exactly what your dealing with four times...
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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I wouldn't think the gear placement would matter as long as #1 line up at TDC. 
