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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: 540challenger]
#1057329
12/10/11 11:07 AM
12/10/11 11:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
My reason.
1. starting at 470/470 factory should be more then enough to push my challenger into the 11's with a stock engine.
2. cost. IF and that is a big IF the 6.4 is priced at around the same price as the 6.1. 7500.00 from mopar complete with wiring harness and all the senors. IT would be a killer deal.
3. A huge cost with the 3rd gen Hemi's is the core charge most engine builders have running as high 1500-2000. Which i can understand giving the block head wiring and senors cost.
4. With a cam swap, headers and a tune i should have well over 525 ponies on tap.
Granted this all depends on the price of the 6.4L IF it is around the 6.1L pricing.
I'm missing something. When did Chrysler or any other compagny start offering cams for the VVT engines.
How do you manage to tune the production 6.4 engine with the production computer?
Don't take this the wrong way, I hope that someone somewhere has manage to crack the roaming encryption codes that Chrysler is now using. I heard that they are almost impossible to crack
Keep us informed.
I think there is one compnay making cams for the VCT motors I thought remember the name it was on the LX forums but You can always send out the factory came to be reground.
As of now you can't tune the motors but that will changes heck it the same thing was said about the 3rd Gen Hemi when they first came out.
I plan on useing an older PCM to so you can tune it.
The VCT is easy to get around b/c there is 2 companies out there that make a part that locks the VCT in place so you can use an older computer. Modern muscle and Comp Cams both have one.
That is encouraging news. I too am looking to swap a hemi into my 03 Dakota.
If I could get a new 6.4 for the same price as a 6.1 I will purchase it.
I think the new blocks are a stronger design.
I mentioned a spacer awhile back that would allow you to use an older cam.
One thing to remember is that they changed the toner ring on the crankshaft from 09 and up. The toner rings are interchangeable. Make sure you change yours and the pickup before tuning it.
Do you have pictures of the paced?
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1057330
12/12/11 02:29 PM
12/12/11 02:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My reason.
1. starting at 470/470 factory should be more then enough to push my challenger into the 11's with a stock engine.
2. cost. IF and that is a big IF the 6.4 is priced at around the same price as the 6.1. 7500.00 from mopar complete with wiring harness and all the senors. IT would be a killer deal.
3. A huge cost with the 3rd gen Hemi's is the core charge most engine builders have running as high 1500-2000. Which i can understand giving the block head wiring and senors cost.
4. With a cam swap, headers and a tune i should have well over 525 ponies on tap.
Granted this all depends on the price of the 6.4L IF it is around the 6.1L pricing.
I'm missing something. When did Chrysler or any other compagny start offering cams for the VVT engines.
How do you manage to tune the production 6.4 engine with the production computer?
Don't take this the wrong way, I hope that someone somewhere has manage to crack the roaming encryption codes that Chrysler is now using. I heard that they are almost impossible to crack
Keep us informed.
I think there is one compnay making cams for the VCT motors I thought remember the name it was on the LX forums but You can always send out the factory came to be reground.
As of now you can't tune the motors but that will changes heck it the same thing was said about the 3rd Gen Hemi when they first came out.
I plan on useing an older PCM to so you can tune it.
The VCT is easy to get around b/c there is 2 companies out there that make a part that locks the VCT in place so you can use an older computer. Modern muscle and Comp Cams both have one.
That is encouraging news. I too am looking to swap a hemi into my 03 Dakota.
If I could get a new 6.4 for the same price as a 6.1 I will purchase it.
I think the new blocks are a stronger design.
I mentioned a spacer awhile back that would allow you to use an older cam.
One thing to remember is that they changed the toner ring on the crankshaft from 09 and up. The toner rings are interchangeable. Make sure you change yours and the pickup before tuning it.
Do you have pictures of the paced?
Hmmmm the spacer would be trick that opens up alot more cam choices. The toner ring i know about thanks to your post on the LX forums. i plan on picking up a worn out 5.7 for parts to tranfer over the acc., toner ring and anything else i need for the swap. Not sure what you mean by paced???
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1057332
12/12/11 04:36 PM
12/12/11 04:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Spacer typo error. I found what there were using at comp cams.
IMO a spacer for the new block so you could use the older cams would be better for the grass roots racer.
Now who has a part # for the PRODUCTION 6.4 hemi?
This weekend i will go to my local dodge dealer and see if they have any part numbers yet??? As of the summer they didn't. The only reason i wouldn't want the spacer is sooner or later when someone figuares out how to use the VCT with an aftermarket cam, IMO would be nice to use...
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: 540challenger]
#1057335
12/12/11 11:27 PM
12/12/11 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Is it possible to run these engines with only one spark plug? The reason I am asking is that the new hemi is basically an LS engine with different heads. So if MA Mopar doesn't want to help with the computer side perhaps you could graph on an LS computer system. They are easily programable
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1057336
12/13/11 12:54 AM
12/13/11 12:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Is it possible to run these engines with only one spark plug?
The reason I am asking is that the new hemi is basically an LS engine with different heads.
So if MA Mopar doesn't want to help with the computer side perhaps you could graph on an LS computer system.
They are easily programable
Yes they can be run on only one plug but the name of the system that did that i can't remember it 
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1057338
12/13/11 01:46 PM
12/13/11 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
It does not take any different wiring to fire both plugs than it does to fire one. The same two primarie wires that fire the individual coil also fire the dual plug coil and since one coil fires two plugs there is nothing else to do.
I would bet you would need a bunch of different sensors though 
I'm thinking the most difficult would be the toner ring and cam position sensor.
The rest IMO would be easy.
So if what I am saying is correct then this is possible or am I out in left field.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1057339
12/13/11 01:57 PM
12/13/11 01:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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I was under the assumption that the MSD #6013 Hemi Controller did fire both plugs at the same time. Is this correct or not..? I have one ordered, but have not recieved it yet to verify.. I will be using it on a carbed/alcohol combination.
Last edited by CHAPPER; 12/13/11 01:58 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1057340
12/13/11 02:14 PM
12/13/11 02:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
I was under the assumption that the MSD #6013 Hemi Controller did fire both plugs at the same time. Is this correct or not..? I have one ordered, but have not recieved it yet to verify..
I will be using it on a carbed/alcohol combination.
IF I remember right you are correct.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: 540challenger]
#1057342
12/13/11 06:53 PM
12/13/11 06:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The MSD just fires one coil at a time, however one coil fires two plugs at the same time, witch plugs it fires are determined by where the plug wire goes, the factory had them fire plugs on oposite sides of the engine for emmisions but with a coil desighned to fire both in one cyliner at the same time you can do it that way or you can get plug wires to make the "take off" coils fire both polugs in one cylinder.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1057343
12/13/11 09:07 PM
12/13/11 09:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Quote:
The MSD just fires one coil at a time, however one coil fires two plugs at the same time, witch plugs it fires are determined by where the plug wire goes, the factory had them fire plugs on oposite sides of the engine for emmisions but with a coil desighned to fire both in one cyliner at the same time you can do it that way or you can get plug wires to make the "take off" coils fire both polugs in one cylinder.
I'm not following you very well,,,,when you talk of plug wires,,,the coil packs set on top of the spark plugs,, ...not sure what you mean,,,not sure what I am getting into either,,,just looking for some answers,,I'm thinking the MSD will fire the coil pack attached to the plugs of a cylinder, at it's appropriate time through the signals sent by the crank/cam sensors...am I not understanding the system..??
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1057344
12/13/11 11:35 PM
12/13/11 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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One signal from the computer can fire one coil and that coil can fire one plug or many depending on how the coil is desighned not nessacarily how the computer is deighned. The LS computer fires 8 individual coils and those 8 coils fire 8 plugs. The hemi has 8 coils that fire 16 plugs, the computer only has to fire 8 times to fire those 16 plugs so there is no reason to get rid of 1/2 the plugs just because you run an LS computer, the computer does not know it is fireing 8 plugs or 16 because the coil takes care of fireing 2 plugs when it gets one signal from the computer.
The Hemi coils fire one plug in the cylinder below it and one on the oposite side of the firing order. There are kits to make it just fire the two plugs in one cylinder.
The only complicated part to figure out with an LS computer is the cam and crank signals are gonna be different.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1057345
12/14/11 12:38 PM
12/14/11 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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i have been getting alot of PMs asking me how my car is running. just to update everyone i'm really out of  . 2 car projects over the past year has put holes in my pockets. i'm trying to be responsible and not run up credit cards as i know it never ends so it sits while i try to get back something that looks like a checking and savings accounts back. i figure i have about another $1000 to get it running but you know how that goes. i have a bunch of parts for sale including the dominator because i just scored a pair of 450s i would rather put on the intake but will need a new lid made. i am as anxious to get the car running as some here seem to be to get some info on my build but real life is just getting in the way of things. honestly i'm a little depressed i dont have it where i want it to be
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Curt]
#1057348
12/15/11 12:54 AM
12/15/11 12:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Well I just got back from my local dodge dealer. No sign yet for a 6.4L complete or long block yet. Nothing for just the block but he did find a short block for $2800 however showing none instock anywhere yet
not mine, just found it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Dodge-Hemi-...ies&vxp=mtr
Wow that is a great price! But what the hell is wrong with Mopar a 500.00 core charge on a brand new engine. First the eagle head gets a core charge now this BS. I can understand the 6.1L stuff having a core but not the still in production stuff. First locking up the PCM's, Now core charges on brand new parts. Mother Mopar is sure making this hard to get into.
Sorry for the rant
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