Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: STEFF]
#1057269
11/28/11 10:23 AM
11/28/11 10:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826 NY usa
540challenger
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Looks like this thread may have run its course. I've got a bunch of stuff going on with my new bullet, but I will save it for my own thread.
I don't think so just close to Christmas. I have other thing a lot more important than putting my car together. Have a st of Apache heads that will soon be flowed on the same bench and fixture as the eagle heads and will be purchasing an aluminum G3. I try posting in one area because the search function on this site is junk. Matt
Do you have the Aluminum block yet? Word on the street is that Chrysler is completely out of stock (dealers & distribution) and they haven't started casting anymore.
Try modern muscle performance from the LX forum. He seems to stock pile the late gen stuff he had a bunch of new 6.1L Blocks and i wont be surprise if he stock piled some Alum Blocks. However he seemed to be a little high on price at least for the 6.4L engines he had in stock then again he is the only game in town with them as far as I know
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: STEFF]
#1057270
11/28/11 09:39 PM
11/28/11 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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Looks like this thread may have run its course. I've got a bunch of stuff going on with my new bullet, but I will save it for my own thread.
I don't think so just close to Christmas. I have other thing a lot more important than putting my car together. Have a st of Apache heads that will soon be flowed on the same bench and fixture as the eagle heads and will be purchasing an aluminum G3. I try posting in one area because the search function on this site is junk. Matt
Do you have the Aluminum block yet? Word on the street is that Chrysler is completely out of stock (dealers & distribution) and they haven't started casting anymore.
No, didnt even try looking. Hopefully Zippy will chime in and give use an update of the availability. I would like to know who has been running the Aluminum block. Are they good casting? Did you ever figure out what happened with your 6.1? There seams to be alot of 5.7 and 6.1 pushing 2 tons of anchor pretty fast.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1057271
11/28/11 10:15 PM
11/28/11 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,874 Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF
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No, didnt even try looking. Hopefully Zippy will chime in and give use an update of the availability. I would like to know who has been running the Aluminum block. Are they good casting? Did you ever figure out what happened with your 6.1? There seams to be alot of 5.7 and 6.1 pushing 2 tons of anchor pretty fast.
As for my 6.1 carnage, the thought is that the stock piston just failed & came apart.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: STEFF]
#1057272
11/29/11 10:37 AM
11/29/11 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,904 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,904
S.E. Michigan
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Haven't heard anything about aluminum block availability, AFAIK it's still ok but sometimes I am the last to find out about such things.
They've vendor ship direct, not stocked in a depot, so the order has to be placed for the part to be tracked down.
If somebody orders one and waits an excessive amount of time to get it, I can look into it and more than likely find out what the deal is. Until then I have to assume everything's cool....It would not really be fair for me to bug the machine shop asking about rumors.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1057273
11/29/11 09:24 PM
11/29/11 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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Haven't heard anything about aluminum block availability, AFAIK it's still ok but sometimes I am the last to find out about such things.
They've vendor ship direct, not stocked in a depot, so the order has to be placed for the part to be tracked down.
If somebody orders one and waits an excessive amount of time to get it, I can look into it and more than likely find out what the deal is. Until then I have to assume everything's cool....It would not really be fair for me to bug the machine shop asking about rumors.
Thanks Zippy. You guys have worked with the G3 aluminum. Any problems? I will be If I spend 4000.00 for a block that needs work or leaks like the W5. I would also like to find out if there is any truth the the mains seizing up. If it is true guys are holding on to this secret like it is gold. IMO this is hurting the Mopar camp. I know that there is R&D involved but save that for making power.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1057274
11/29/11 09:32 PM
11/29/11 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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With the dist front cover, I guess you can run like a MSD 7 series ignition then? Does anyone make a notor plate for them or does one need to fab up one themselves? We are hanging up the small block motors we are running and putting together 2 of the 5.7 hemis for our bracket cars. We have 3 early engines sitting on stands in our shop.
NHRAmarks partner made my motor plate. here is his email
Bob.Ette@aeicnc.com
there is a problem that needs to be addressed and i could post pictures later. it involves useing a bbchevy water pump. on my water pump, the outlet is very close to the balancer. i am solving this by cutting 1/2inch out of the "legs" moving the whole water pump closer to the water plate. i may have pictures after this weekend of the mod.
another idea would be to do what member Steff did. he uses a remote pump and his motor plate is tapped for AN fittings.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
ok, so i bought a cheap water pump off ebay for $110 free shipping. i bought this perticular one because you can put the inlet on either side. so when i bolted it up, the inlet was to close to the pulley, also i couldnt fit my rad with the HHR fan in there
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1057281
12/01/11 09:02 PM
12/01/11 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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hy guys these rods that are being throud are they stock,good aftermarket,bad aftermarket?????????? thanks jg309
Aftermarket H beams for the most part....unfortunately it's not as simple as 'the rod broke because the rod was weak'. If it were that easy nobody would complain
The other important point? It's primarily seen on vehicles that are shifted at 8000 rpm and higher.
Thanks Zippy When I purchase an aluminum G3 it will be from Chrysler.
Imagine trying to take a stock oiling system to 8000+ RPM. My take it could be a couple of things. And that this with a grain of salt. 1 could be the same as the LA engine oil has a hard time making the 90 degree turn. 2 the crank could be airating the oil. If the clearances are good and the assembly procedure are right IMO tbe reason a rod weld itself to the crank lack of oil.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1057284
12/03/11 06:36 PM
12/03/11 06:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833 MN
hemidup
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
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Well here is where I am at with my own deal. Never got good answers on why these things are pitching rods at high rpm. I would rather deal with the valvetrain maintenance than take a chance on banging lower end parts. Looks like it would be a no brainer to go the new gen route if it were not for these things eating lower end parts with no good answer for why. Seems like some guys might have it figured out but they wont say what the problem is because they want to sell engines. Well I wont buy an engine that I know has issues and you wont tell me what the issue is and how to you fixed it.
Okay, here goes nothing and this is my opinion only and everyone has one lol.
Tuning, headers and DP intake manifold design.
First off header design. As you guys can see from the pic's the a/f bungs are reading primary tubes. I've seen this with both TTI's and ARH's. The bungs should be in the collector's so to read an average a/f of each bank. Most tuners tune with a/f #'s but if your only reading a/f's of off 3-4 cylinders, thats just not right.
The DP intake manifold design needs some popsicle sticks and epoxy with a carb or a good tuner that will tune each and every cylinder with EFI. I've dyno'd the 5.7 and 6.1 factory intakes, XV intake and the DP intake. Using 8 egt probes in the header primarie tubes, what I found is that the factory intake manifolds showed the egt's to be within 5*s at high rpm which is incredable. The DP intake not so much with the #3,4,5 and 6 showing the highest egt's. Now if tuners are tuning a/f's based off the rich cylinders (again, a/f bung location) the center cylinders are way lean and will be in detonation. An interesting fact is when I talked with the guys with blown up motors and asked them where their timing was set at WOT, most stated their tuners set them between 25 and 26*s. At the dyno with 105 tuning the timing and fuel curves, we heard audible knock at 27* and our DP engine made the most power and tq at 19.5*s thanks to the very efficient chamber design. I'm also a true believer in keeping the knock sensors in the tuning picture. Most tuners take those out of the equation, but I'd rather have the computer pull timing and fuel to save our very expensive engine if it goes into detonation.
Most the DP engines are built by a few and then tuned by a few certain individuals. Sometimes that marriage doesn't work. Been there done that. I also bet the majority of DP owner's just want to get in the car and hit the go fast pedal and have no clue about EFI tuning or how to data log a pass.
In conclusion and my personal opinion, the center rods get married to the crank because detonation is taking out the rod bearings. I also believe its not an oiling issue cause you would see more failures with the #7/8 bearings. I've asked a couple with blown engines to measure their after carnage piston taper for me to verify my theory, but no responses as of yet. I also would recommened tuning with egt's vs a/f's. I also think Barton would tune this way. Also need 6Packgut to figure out the popsicle stick and epoxy for a carb application. Happy holiday's.
Jerry Williams.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: hemidup]
#1057286
12/03/11 09:28 PM
12/03/11 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Well here is where I am at with my own deal. Never got good answers on why these things are pitching rods at high rpm. I would rather deal with the valvetrain maintenance than take a chance on banging lower end parts. Looks like it would be a no brainer to go the new gen route if it were not for these things eating lower end parts with no good answer for why. Seems like some guys might have it figured out but they wont say what the problem is because they want to sell engines. Well I wont buy an engine that I know has issues and you wont tell me what the issue is and how to you fixed it.
Okay, here goes nothing and this is my opinion only and everyone has one lol.
Tuning, headers and DP intake manifold design.
First off header design. As you guys can see from the pic's the a/f bungs are reading primary tubes. I've seen this with both TTI's and ARH's. The bungs should be in the collector's so to read an average a/f of each bank. Most tuners tune with a/f #'s but if your only reading a/f's of off 3-4 cylinders, thats just not right.
The DP intake manifold design needs some popsicle sticks and epoxy with a carb or a good tuner that will tune each and every cylinder with EFI. I've dyno'd the 5.7 and 6.1 factory intakes, XV intake and the DP intake. Using 8 egt probes in the header primarie tubes, what I found is that the factory intake manifolds showed the egt's to be within 5*s at high rpm which is incredable. The DP intake not so much with the #3,4,5 and 6 showing the highest egt's. Now if tuners are tuning a/f's based off the rich cylinders (again, a/f bung location) the center cylinders are way lean and will be in detonation. An interesting fact is when I talked with the guys with blown up motors and asked them where their timing was set at WOT, most stated their tuners set them between 25 and 26*s. At the dyno with 105 tuning the timing and fuel curves, we heard audible knock at 27* and our DP engine made the most power and tq at 19.5*s thanks to the very efficient chamber design. I'm also a true believer in keeping the knock sensors in the tuning picture. Most tuners take those out of the equation, but I'd rather have the computer pull timing and fuel to save our very expensive engine if it goes into detonation.
Most the DP engines are built by a few and then tuned by a few certain individuals. Sometimes that marriage doesn't work. Been there done that. I also bet the majority of DP owner's just want to get in the car and hit the go fast pedal and have no clue about EFI tuning or how to data log a pass.
In conclusion and my personal opinion, the center rods get married to the crank because detonation is taking out the rod bearings. I also believe its not an oiling issue cause you would see more failures with the #7/8 bearings. I've asked a couple with blown engines to measure their after carnage piston taper for me to verify my theory, but no responses as of yet. I also would recommened tuning with egt's vs a/f's. I also think Barton would tune this way. Also need 6Packgut to figure out the popsicle stick and epoxy for a carb application. Happy holiday's.
Man I hope that you are right and thank you for nutting up and sharing this info.
BIG
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: hemidup]
#1057288
12/04/11 04:47 AM
12/04/11 04:47 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864 IN
Irun5snd8th
OP
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
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Thank you very much for that information. Very sensible theory. And that theory would bode well for my piece because mine would be mechanically fuel injected.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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