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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: 340RICK]
#1056950
08/23/11 10:24 AM
08/23/11 10:24 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
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Irun5snd8th
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Found me a buddy at the local dealership. Found a complete 5.7 from a 05' Jeep HO. Dont know if the High Output means anything. So now I have a starting point. Since I already have these heads, how much better are the Eagle heads or do I just send these heads off? Is the Manley stroker kit an actual kit? I am headed to Indy next week and I gonna have a notebook with me. I am gonna wear the drag pack guys out 
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1056951
08/23/11 11:21 AM
08/23/11 11:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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Quote:
Found me a buddy at the local dealership. Found a complete 5.7 from a 05' Jeep HO. Dont know if the High Output means anything. So now I have a starting point. Since I already have these heads, how much better are the Eagle heads or do I just send these heads off? Is the Manley stroker kit an actual kit?
I am headed to Indy next week and I gonna have a notebook with me. I am gonna wear the drag pack guys out
HO mean nothing
I flowed a set of eagle heads and they flowed better than my Indy 230 cnc heads.
The indy did pass the eagles starting at .500 and up. It was maybe 10 cfm IIRC.
THIS A RACE PREP HEAD VS A PRODUCTION HEAD.
Keep in mind on a STOCK block your CR will got up around 12 to 1 using the eagle heads. A stock 5.7 08 and down intake will be mismatch. Same as going from 318 to 340. 6.1,have the same port size.
Do not know about the manley kits.
Be careful of what you read around here a lot of people have excellent knowledge. But their are a few , very little amount don,t have a clue.
Like the clown who stated that nothing interchange with the 5.7 and 6.1. Lol
Matt
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1056952
08/23/11 11:59 AM
08/23/11 11:59 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
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So how does the Eagle head compare to the 6.1? Will either work with the drag pak intake? Sounds like the Eagle head is cheaper than the 6.1 but is it the better way to go? And I guess another question is the Apache head an option? Looking at flow numbers on the Apache head I would say that making more than 650 could be more likely than not. I guess I can always slow the thing down
Last edited by Irun6snd8th; 08/23/11 12:10 PM.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1056953
08/23/11 12:25 PM
08/23/11 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Found me a buddy at the local dealership. Found a complete 5.7 from a 05' Jeep HO. Dont know if the High Output means anything. So now I have a starting point. Since I already have these heads, how much better are the Eagle heads or do I just send these heads off? Is the Manley stroker kit an actual kit?
I am headed to Indy next week and I gonna have a notebook with me. I am gonna wear the drag pack guys out
HO mean nothing
I flowed a set of eagle heads and they flowed better than my Indy 230 cnc heads.
The indy did pass the eagles starting at .500 and up. It was maybe 10 cfm IIRC.
THIS A RACE PREP HEAD VS A PRODUCTION HEAD.
Keep in mind on a STOCK block your CR will got up around 12 to 1 using the eagle heads. A stock 5.7 08 and down intake will be mismatch. Same as going from 318 to 340. 6.1,have the same port size.
Do not know about the manley kits.
Be careful of what you read around here a lot of people have excellent knowledge. But their are a few , very little amount don,t have a clue.
Like the clown who stated that nothing interchange with the 5.7 and 6.1. Lol
Matt
are your eagles your flowing untouched? i did just a little work on mine. the bowl is smaller than the seat and i would think flow numbers would pick up with just a little work.
how about posting your flow numbers for the eagle head
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1056954
08/23/11 12:53 PM
08/23/11 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,048
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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Prototype tooling and facility price are the cost and availability drivers.
Only a couple manifolds can come from each mold...then the mold has to be thrown away, and Mopar has to pay for a new mold. It gets expensive.
Personally...in my humble opinion?
I would like to see the manifold cast in the same place, using similar tools to the LA and RB M1 manifolds, the price brought down and the availability brought in line with the rest of the MP manifolds. Though it means there is a higher upfront cost...it's a one time cost...and sure there might be a little more casting flash to clean up here and there, but I wouldn't care and I doubt 99% of racers would complain.
I will keep bringing that up to those who are empowered to change it every chance I get.
The manifold is a killer piece, there's nothing better in that configuration out there. The price and availability concerns are well understood and thanks for the comments.
I stand corrected on the Apache head. It has basically
6.1-sized port openings just like the eagle, but the bowls are enlarged quite a bit. So they would work just fine also.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1056955
08/23/11 01:33 PM
08/23/11 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
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Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Prototype tooling and facility price are the cost and availability drivers.
Only a couple manifolds can come from each mold...then the mold has to be thrown away, and Mopar has to pay for a new mold. It gets expensive.
Personally...in my humble opinion?
I would like to see the manifold cast in the same place, using similar tools to the LA and RB M1 manifolds, the price brought down and the availability brought in line with the rest of the MP manifolds. Though it means there is a higher upfront cost...it's a one time cost...and sure there might be a little more casting flash to clean up here and there, but I wouldn't care and I doubt 99% of racers would complain.
I will keep bringing that up to those who are empowered to change it every chance I get.
The manifold is a killer piece, there's nothing better in that configuration out there. The price and availability concerns are well understood and thanks for the comments.
I stand corrected on the Apache head. It has basically
6.1-sized port openings just like the eagle, but the bowls are enlarged quite a bit. So they would work just fine also.
Thanks for info as always. 
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1056956
08/23/11 01:37 PM
08/23/11 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Found me a buddy at the local dealership. Found a complete 5.7 from a 05' Jeep HO. Dont know if the High Output means anything. So now I have a starting point. Since I already have these heads, how much better are the Eagle heads or do I just send these heads off? Is the Manley stroker kit an actual kit?
I am headed to Indy next week and I gonna have a notebook with me. I am gonna wear the drag pack guys out
HO mean nothing
I flowed a set of eagle heads and they flowed better than my Indy 230 cnc heads.
The indy did pass the eagles starting at .500 and up. It was maybe 10 cfm IIRC.
THIS A RACE PREP HEAD VS A PRODUCTION HEAD.
Keep in mind on a STOCK block your CR will got up around 12 to 1 using the eagle heads. A stock 5.7 08 and down intake will be mismatch. Same as going from 318 to 340. 6.1,have the same port size.
Do not know about the manley kits.
Be careful of what you read around here a lot of people have excellent knowledge. But their are a few , very little amount don,t have a clue.
Like the clown who stated that nothing interchange with the 5.7 and 6.1. Lol
Matt
are your eagles your flowing untouched? i did just a little work on mine. the bowl is smaller than the seat and i would think flow numbers would pick up with just a little work.
how about posting your flow numbers for the eagle head
I did. You read the post. I will find it and give it a bump. Matt
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1056957
08/23/11 01:54 PM
08/23/11 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,048
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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I missed a couple Quote:
As far as a cam spacer to use in a VCT block, never explored that one!!
So are you saying that these standard stroker short blocks that places are selling with some worked Eagle heads can get you to 650?
Never explored the cam spacer idea 
There are so many early blocks out there (Chrysler made over 3 million of them...there were more of them made than 383s), we never really worried very much about the early vs late block issue. "just use the early one, they're easy to find" has always been the thought.
On the off-the shelf stroker kits, as said, careful because they're not designed for drag racing. The crank and rods are generally no problem as long as they're quality pieces, but you would want pistons that will give a higher compression ratio if at all possible. And most of them won't do that for you. Might want to order invidividual pieces instead.
The 392 crate/drag pak OE camshaft was on 110 centers, which is why it nosed over the way it did. For some reason MP did not want an 8000 rpm crate engine at the time? I can't imagine why? Seriously it was a good comprimise, in that it kept rpm down and gave a little thump to the idle which alot of customers seem to want.
112 seems like the magic number, though...
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1056958
08/23/11 02:50 PM
08/23/11 02:50 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
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I am hearing guys saying they are running factory gaskets. So how much compression can the head gaskets take?
What header tubes are we talking on these engines? 2 1/8" step header?
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: hemidup]
#1056962
08/23/11 04:07 PM
08/23/11 04:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,048
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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 Yep, same here. Those stock mls gaskets from the dodge dealer are great, and cheap too. Same with the stock OE header/exhaust manifold gaskets...I can't find any aftermarket ones that work any better. The ones supplied with most header packages out there, seem kinda crappy compared to the stock ones. If anyone needs one, here are some cores for next to nothing (they are not mine, or anyone I know): Link . Soon it'll probably be common to find 5.7s laying in the weeds here and there, like 383s used to be.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1056964
08/23/11 06:04 PM
08/23/11 06:04 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
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So how big can you stroke a 5.7"? Can it go bigger than 392?
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1056965
08/23/11 07:32 PM
08/23/11 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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Quote:
So how big can you stroke a 5.7"? Can it go bigger than 392?
4.25 K1 is the largest I know of before billet. So what is the equation Bore x3.14xstoke x8 =CID?
I think you need the purchase the crank from Arrington?
The 2010 engine master challenge had a 4.25 stroke but had to sink the valve in the head to run their hydraulic cam Piston to valve clearence.
Matt
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1056966
08/23/11 07:42 PM
08/23/11 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
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I have been watching all the threads I can on the Gen III hemi engines. Like I have stated before, I have a 5.7 dirt track experiment engine in the works. I have lots of questions, The first being,,,where can I get some basic info on the engine???...as what is the stock rod/crank capable of producing,,,what are the 'factory specs' for rod length/deck height.etc...so I can do some math on compression/piston pin height /etc..?? Also,,what are people doing for ignition system when going with carb set-up..??..crank trigger system to fire the stock coil arrangement,,,does the crank need a keyway cut into it to hold the crank trigger system accurate,,LOTS of questions!! STILL have not had anybody tell me where they are finding the intake manifolds,,,all I hear is they are pricey,,where are they ACTUALLY available?? Thanks.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Design me a 3G Hemi bracket engine
[Re: MattW]
#1056967
08/23/11 07:57 PM
08/23/11 07:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
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Quote:
Quote:
So how big can you stroke a 5.7"? Can it go bigger than 392?
4.25 K1 is the largest I know of before billet. So what is the equation Bore x3.14xstoke x8 =CID?
I think you need the purchase the crank from Arrington?
The 2010 engine master challenge had a 4.25 stroke but had to sink the valve in the head to run their hydraulic cam Piston to valve clearence.
Matt
4.25 Stroke x 4.10 Bore is 448" 
Chris.. 
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