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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: 540challenger]
#1046618
08/05/11 11:35 PM
08/05/11 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm running a stock (Heavy Duty 12v) coil in my daily '73 Dart without ballast resistor.
If I reconnect the ballast resistor, the car starts to stumble at idle and die when put in Drive. I probably have the wrong resistor, but since I disconnected it everything still seems to work fine.
The coil's temp climbs right along with the engine intake's temp.
Today I decided to install a MSD Blaster 2 coil (also without ballast).
After starting the engine I let it run for a couple of minutes and used my infrared tempgauge and pointed it at the coil... It was already at 130-140F and climbing. I kept the engine idling for awhile to see where the temp would end up at and it went up to around 176F when I called it quits.
To me it's obvious the Blaster coil really needs a ballast resistor when used in a daily driver.
Has anyone ever measured the temp of a coil here?
I haven't but tomorrow I will, sounds like a fun and easy experiment.
Thats why Mopar recommends a 0.25 Ohm ballast resistor for the Blaster 2 when used with a Mopar box...
Keep in mind the major thing that burns out the coil is the current, thats the major purpose of the ballast resistor..
Just my $0.02... 
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: Sinitro]
#1046619
08/05/11 11:40 PM
08/05/11 11:40 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ditch the stupid ECU and ballast and put in a MSD 6AL box.
Much better spark.
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
#1046620
08/06/11 11:03 AM
08/06/11 11:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
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Quote:
Ditch the stupid ECU and ballast and put in a MSD 6AL box.
Much better spark.
I have the MSD6 with the built-in Mopar connector and can switch out in about 5 minutes with my chrome box..
My built 440 runs actually better with the chrome box..
When I run the MSD I change the ballast resistor to one that I put a straight wire in..
Note my chrome box is about 10 years old, maybe they built them better back then..
Just my $0.02..
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1046623
08/06/11 04:31 PM
08/06/11 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
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Quote:
The ballast keeps cuts the voltage to the coil. A Blaster 2 can handle 12 volts, as would any 12 volt coil.
The "concern" about not running a ballast is that the transistor in the ECU will heat up and burn out with 12 volts flowing through it. Has nothing to do w/ the coil.
The ballast resistor serves (2) purposes, it drops the voltage but also prevents higher current to the coil as well. Plus as it heats up its resistance increases which drops the input voltage to coil lowering its output voltage..
The coil is capable to handle the higher voltages for short durations OK but since it typically constructed of hundreds of turns of thin 28 gauge wire, sustained cycles of higher voltage along with the current the coil will fail. Think about much like flashlite batteries, a D cell and an AA or both rated @1.5V but the D cell can hold it voltage capability longer as it has the current reserve..
The coil is a voltage step-up transformer, as the coil overheats its efficiency (output voltage) will drop. The ECU is simply a switch triggered by the distributor pickup that turns the coil on/off..
For an MSD box which does multiple switching is able to fire the coil to a higher voltage as it switches on the coil in shorter sequential intervals so the it doesn't heat up as fast...
Just my $0.02..
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: Sinitro]
#1046624
08/06/11 04:39 PM
08/06/11 04:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Quote:
The ballast keeps cuts the voltage to the coil. A Blaster 2 can handle 12 volts, as would any 12 volt coil.
The "concern" about not running a ballast is that the transistor in the ECU will heat up and burn out with 12 volts flowing through it. Has nothing to do w/ the coil.
The ballast resistor serves (2) purposes, it drops the voltage but also prevents higher current to the coil as well. Plus as it heats up its resistance increases which drops the input voltage to coil lowering its output voltage..
The coil is capable to handle the higher voltages for short durations OK but since it typically constructed of hundreds of turns of thin 28 gauge wire, sustained cycles of higher voltage along with the current the coil will fail. Think about much like flashlite batteries, a D cell and an AA or both rated @1.5V but the D cell can hold it voltage capability longer as it has the current reserve..
The coil is a voltage step-up transformer, as the coil overheats its efficiency (output voltage) will drop. The ECU is simply a switch triggered by the distributor pickup that turns the coil on/off..
For an MSD box which does multiple switching is able to fire the coil to a higher voltage as it switches on the coil in shorter sequential intervals so the it doesn't heat up as fast...
Just my $0.02..
BINGO - as you so schooled me a few weeks ago! i need to save this in my favorites for when it comes up again.
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1046625
08/06/11 04:55 PM
08/06/11 04:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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""The ECU is simply a switch triggered by the distributor pickup that turns the coil on/off.""
Can a standard ECU handle a non ballast setup or does an ECU have to be designed for a non ballast setup?
Thanks
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1046630
08/07/11 12:12 AM
08/07/11 12:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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So Cal
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Quote:
i'll try my best here at the risk of getting flammed  it is my understanding that the ballast has no relationship to the ECU. it is the coil and ballast that must be matched. a 'standard' ECU requires the use of a ballast because there is only one firing of the coil. this makes the amount of time the coil is storing voltage longer and cause the coil to get hot at lower rpms. so, if you are using a standard ECU with an oil filled coil then yes, you need to use the ballast recommended by the coil manufacture. in the case of a Blaster2 i believe the recommendation is a .5. a stock coil i think is a .2. you need to use a .5 with the Blaster because it has way more and smaller windings inside to increase the output and it will burn out. with a multi-spark ECU the ballast is not needed because at low rpms, the unit it causing the coil to fire multiple times and NOT storing it.
The ignition system consists of matched components, one cannot just start swapping piece for piece and expect reliable performance...
The Blaster coils (#P3690560 or #P4876832/33) uses a 0.25 Ohm ballast resistor (#P2444641) normally used with the Chrome box (#P4120534). The standard Mopar OE coils (#P4120889 or #P02495531) uses a 1 Ohm ballast resistor (#P5206436) used with the Orange box (#P4120505). It is not recommended to mix or match components, the ignition system should work but How well? and How long?..
All of these Mopar part #s were taken from the Mopar 2009 performance catalog.
Just my $0.02...
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1046632
08/07/11 08:00 AM
08/07/11 08:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
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Quote:
And yet MSd advises to use a 0.8 Ohm resistor with their Blaster 2 coils. Now what to do? 
Your choice..
With my MSD box and Blaster coil MSD says to bypass the ballast resistor..
Looks like MSD is advising some confusing info..
A good starting point is to follow the brand's advise..
Just my $0.02...
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1046633
08/07/11 08:23 AM
08/07/11 08:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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use the ballast that is matched to the coil. here is an excellent Q/A on what the ballast is for. kinda long though. http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Electrical/coil.htmthe bottom line is if you match the componets together the way they are recommended, they will last longer. the numbers i posted are probably wrong as i was going from memory but the amount of CURRENT reduction is minimal between my post and Sinitro's. will it work without a ballast? yes, but for how long?
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: Sinitro]
#1046634
08/07/11 09:56 AM
08/07/11 09:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,354
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,354
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Quote:
And yet MSd advises to use a 0.8 Ohm resistor with their Blaster 2 coils. Now what to do?
Your choice..
With my MSD box and Blaster coil MSD says to bypass the ballast resistor..
Looks like MSD is advising some confusing info..
A good starting point is to follow the brand's advise..
Just my $0.02...
Yep. That is why I bypassed mine. MSD info said it is a 12 volt coil. Then I see people on here saying not to do that. MA says don't do that. Since I already did and it worked, I know differently. It would seem some "theory" was employed about the ECU overheating and others just parrotted that over and over.
A 12 volt coil will be fine running on 12 volts.
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1046635
08/07/11 10:08 AM
08/07/11 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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The reason that I asked if an ECU can handle a non ballast setup is because when I called FBO and told D that I was using his ECU without a ballast and with a Mallory 12v coil, he said that the ECU will burn up.
This bothers me because I have the manufacturer saying that it will burn up but so far it has not. D knows his ignitions!! I only drive the car about 30-45 minutes at a time so maybe it would on a longer drive.
I am cosidering his new ECU/12v coil and keep my existing items as a backup.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1046636
08/07/11 12:10 PM
08/07/11 12:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,119
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,119
Valencia, España
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I guess it could burn because ECU closes the coil circuit when hooking the - lead of coil, wire what runs to ECU.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1046637
08/07/11 12:17 PM
08/07/11 12:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,119
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
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Valencia, España
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Guys... it look some of you are worried about bypass the resistor and then if some emergency how went back to the stock assembly with resistor on a quick change.
THATS EASY... get a ballast resistor, remove the filler on back, remove the resistor from ceramic, keep the prongs ( prongs have retining tabs so you can remove the prongs too ), sold a jumper wire ( 14 or 12 gauge ) between prongs and insert it again into the ceramic piece... wire the harness as usually you'd do.
the day you need to hook back again the stock system, simply mount an untouched ballast and voila! wiring kept untouched at least on that part
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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