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Willys Wagon Build #1044525
08/01/11 10:33 AM
08/01/11 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,633
Norwich CT USA
moparts Offline OP
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moparts  Offline OP
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Norwich CT USA
Lets start with , I have a 57 Willys wagon with a rusty frame,

So doing some looking around I figure that I should be able to mount the Willys wagon onto a CJ8 frame with out too much problem.

Using an after market ( stronger than stock ) CJ8 frame, And most of the parts from a CJ7 that I stripped, I should be able to complete this project with out excesses expense

Now the problem, with fuel prices going up, I want to get a good MPG with this rig.

First thought rebuilding the 4.2 6 cylinder and keeping the all jeep drive train, but thinking a diesel is the way to go.

Price on a 4BT is just too much, So thinking of tiring to fit a 6BT as in Dodge Truck Diesel into the CJ8 frame and boxing the firewall on the Willys Wagon.

Thoughts on this build or are there other diesel engines that I should be considering?

Last edited by moparts; 03/01/14 10:51 AM.
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparts] #1044526
08/01/11 11:46 AM
08/01/11 11:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,525
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks Offline
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Western Colorado High Desert
Doesn't the 6BT weight around 1000lbs? If so might want to think about beefing up that CJ8 suspension and brakes.
Otherwise you'd have one sick rig dude.


72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, .
Moparmarks Parts & Restorations
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Grand Jct. CO
970-261-7039
http://moparmark.com/
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Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparmarks] #1044527
08/01/11 02:43 PM
08/01/11 02:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,709
Des Moines IA
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Soopernaut Offline
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Des Moines IA
There is a lot of good information here.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/engines_general.htm


1970 Dodge d100/eventually going on a 77 D100 frame
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: Soopernaut] #1044528
08/01/11 08:41 PM
08/01/11 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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ahy Offline
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I know the 4.0 can be pretty thrifty when matched up to a manual transmission. My daughters '01 Cherokee gets 22 ish MPG cruising at 75 and isn't bad around town. The cam is small and the gears are long and it all works well together. If you want to run a carb I would guess its possible to convert. Plus the 4.0 is light, at least compared to a diesel which is an advantage off road and on. I've never done it but I understand the 4.0 head will fit a 4.2 which will give better breathing of the 4.0 plus extra torque.

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: ahy] #1044529
08/02/11 07:47 AM
08/02/11 07:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
I think I'd go in the archives and copy hotroddave's "super duper gas mileage 318" build and toss that in there...high compression, tight quench, very short solid cam and a t-quad...


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: patrick] #1044530
08/02/11 03:46 PM
08/02/11 03:46 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,727
Chicagoland
Cooter Offline
top fuel
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top fuel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,727
Chicagoland
I really can't see the 6bt getting that much better fuel mileage than a 4.0. Plus, the weight, size, and limited powerband of the diesel will make this a very unwieldy project, to say the least. The scrambler frame, aftermarket or not, really isn't up to snuff for that much weight. Engine compartment size and radiator size will be two other limitations. If you are really set on doing this, I would suggest a Wagoneer frame. Or an Isuzu turbo diesel. Or both.

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparts] #1044531
08/03/11 01:27 AM
08/03/11 01:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant Offline
top fuel
Prince_Valiant  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
it's not quite "mopar" but perhaps consider a Volkswagon 1.9 TDI?

There was someone who has swapped one into a later jeep with much sucess. Near 30mpg iirc.


1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: Cooter] #1044532
08/03/11 02:40 AM
08/03/11 02:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/3-0l-mercedes-turbo-diesel-into-1994-yj-835449/

This guy put an 80's mercedes 5cyl turbo diesel in his tj. Sounds like the hardest part was making the adapter plate to mate the motor to his ax-15 trans.

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: ahy] #1044533
08/03/11 02:42 AM
08/03/11 02:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

I know the 4.0 can be pretty thrifty when matched up to a manual transmission.




You're the first person I've ever heard refer to the 4.0 as "thrifty"!

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1044534
08/03/11 11:53 AM
08/03/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
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Chino Valley
Hey we all want it all in our vehicles. The thought of a cheap trail rig thrown together and a 5.9 diesel just doesn't add up to me. Not unless you are climbing grippy terrian and hauling 4 tons!
Trails and MPG to me sounds like light and small. Something that can take an hour to go 2 miles and not make a dent in the fuel tank, and also doesn't require a mil-spec drivetrain.

How about outlining overall cost, type of trails and expected cargo and people loads?

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: RodStRace] #1044535
08/03/11 03:29 PM
08/03/11 03:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 403
Portlandia
wimcle Offline
mopar
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mopar

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Posts: 403
Portlandia
Don't forget that the jeep is less aerodynamic than a brick!

On the highway, there is a mpg limit you will hit no matter how efficient a motor you have.

On the trails, bouncing over rocks, creeping around in 2-lo, and etc. I find that I give out long before the gas tank does.

My opinion, pick a motor, then gear it to match. It's not going to make too much of a difference in the long run.

PS: Going down hill from vail pass, I have to give it gas to keep up to the speed limit, thats pathetic aerodynamics


'00 cbr929rr -- '98 Ram SS/T -- '67 Dart Conv. --'05 Neon -- '09 Wrangler
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1044536
08/03/11 09:50 PM
08/03/11 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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ahy Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I know the 4.0 can be pretty thrifty when matched up to a manual transmission.




You're the first person I've ever heard refer to the 4.0 as "thrifty"!




I'd go so far as to call it "perky" also! It just made a 2200 mile/2 1/2 day trip from Illinois to San Diego by the southern route loaded to the roof and pulling a trailer. Not one problem. Didn't even blow a trailer tire... probably because we had 2 spares.

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparts] #1044537
08/04/11 07:09 AM
08/04/11 07:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
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USA
The 1984 Lincoln Mk coupes had an option for a BMW built diesel.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/10/rare-find-1984-lincoln-continental-with.html

I had a mining engineer friend who had one in a Mark VII coupe and he got 32 to 34 MPG consistently on frequent trips from Whitesburg KY to Lexington KY

I did that same trip many times in a 1984 Ford Thunderbird gasoline V6 and typically got 24 MPG.
My brother had a 1986 Mercury Cougar turbo 4 and would get 26 MPG on the same exact trip.

It would be a relatively rare car to find in a salvage yard, but about the right size for Jeep duty.

The air cooled Deutz diesel used for portable pumps is a great design, and I have read where it has been retro-fitted into trucks.

If you wanted to stay with a newer design
consider the Motori diesel in the Jeep Liberty
or a VW TDI, including a 5 cyl TDI

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: 360view] #1044538
08/07/11 05:43 PM
08/07/11 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
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Defbob  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Tom ended up buying the PRICEY 4BT last night

He bought an entire Frito Lay truck

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: Defbob] #1044539
08/07/11 06:05 PM
08/07/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,633
Norwich CT USA
moparts Offline OP
I Live Here
moparts  Offline OP
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Norwich CT USA
Yes, just about to buy a wrecked Dodge 4X4 Diesel for the engine and trans.

But the 4bt in the bread truck showed up on Craigslist yesterday. Should have it on Monday Night

And the bread truck was cheaper also


Tom ,

2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727


Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparts] #1044540
08/08/11 09:55 AM
08/08/11 09:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,309
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
dynotune440 Offline
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dynotune440  Offline
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CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
you should make some money back scrappin the body


Dinuba, California, Home of the PALOMINO ranch and 440 truck farm, where dodge trucks have a home. Have Four 1979 dodge PALOMINO trucks now.
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: dynotune440] #1044541
08/08/11 12:14 PM
08/08/11 12:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 522
Lenox Iowa
M
MMiller Offline
mopar
MMiller  Offline
mopar
M

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 522
Lenox Iowa
I know that my 5.9 cummins in my 90, will go anywhere any of my other full size gasser friends trucks will go. It will wind in the mud with any bigblock for trail duty, and I can wheel a whole weekend on a few gallons of diesel. My buddy's with big blocks, and even small blocks, they are dumping gas in every night, sometimes even in the afternoon to finish the day.

After seeing mine work, and wheeling friend took his BBC out and will never go back. His tuned 5.9 cummins has never been a slouch to his BBC.

All that being said, I think a 5.9 is going to be a little much for the above said chassis. I think the 4 cylinder B will be sweet.

Michael


93 W250 CTD getrag, Bosch 185 injectors, AFE air filter. Trailer puller, daily driver,

90 W250 CTD 727 with smokin 5" stacks. Off road truck

75 Dodge W200 440 4spd 4x4 locked front and rear, twin disc clutch, E85. Pulling truck
Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: dynotune440] #1044542
08/08/11 05:40 PM
08/08/11 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,633
Norwich CT USA
moparts Offline OP
I Live Here
moparts  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,633
Norwich CT USA
Quote:

you should make some money back scrappin the body




plasma cutter here go, scrap aluminum


Tom ,

2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727


Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: moparts] #1044543
08/08/11 07:09 PM
08/08/11 07:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
I Live Here
RodStRace  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
Way to go, Tom!
That has got to be better than a 6 for your use.
Don't plasmacut, that's blowing money on the ground! Haul it down whole.
Heck, you could sell sheets as "Official Moparts Lightweight Patch Panels"...
At least cut out the signage and Ebay it as vintage and rare!

Re: Jeep Build - For Off Roading and MPG [Re: RodStRace] #1044544
08/09/11 07:24 PM
08/09/11 07:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Norwich CT USA
Since Tom hasn't posted a pic of the Willys he bought off of me here you go....

Also, I decided to put a diesel in my Dodge M37 and suddenly he has to have one as well

6771451-IMG_7601.JPG (1241 downloads)
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