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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1036970
07/21/11 05:29 PM
07/21/11 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
what would you use John? 625AFB?
No a carter BBD 2bbl ....
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME]
#1036971
07/21/11 05:30 PM
07/21/11 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quote:
Quote:
Unless you already have a set of 906's that flow over 300cfm you'll spend that 2k real easy TRYING to get there.
I talked to the owner of that engine with the 906 heads, he might make me a deal on them 
Good luck 
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME]
#1036972
07/21/11 05:36 PM
07/21/11 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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My old 440 in my 63 was a nice mild build that hit a best of 11.49 @ 116 and it weighs in at 3700 with me in the car.
It was a .030 over 440 with KB quench pad pistons as I used 906 heads I ported myself. I worked the combustion chambers and deck height to get .045 quench and 10.0 comp. Rods and crank were stock and I used the MP .557 solid cam and Isky ductile iron rockers. I put the cam on a 104 centerline and it ran fine on 92 pump. I used a Mallory dist with a quick advance all in by 1800 and had a total of 38. I also used the MP ign system and use an older orange box that has worked fine. The intake was the Holley Street Dominator and it had an 850 DP. Hedman 1-3/4 headers with 3" exh and Dyno-Max Ultra-Flow mufflers. I used 4.30's with a 30" tire and a Dynamic 9.5 street/strip converter that would flash about 4200 at the track but drove like a normal converter. It was a very nice driving car I drove everywhere including to the track.
If you ran 3.91's with a 28" tire it would be almost the same overall gear effect as the 4.30's with a 30" tire.
Anyway I thought I would run the combo by you as it might help give you some idea's for your combo. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 07/21/11 05:38 PM.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1036973
07/21/11 05:50 PM
07/21/11 05:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,376
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I don't get it. There's NOTHING MAGICAL about 906 heads. They came on all the bigblocks, 383 2-barrels for example. They are 43 years old. They have an AWFUL combustion chamber. When ported within an inch of their life they have problems with cracking or porting into a casting flaw which on an exhaust port pretty much kills the head. Unless the porter knows what he is doing it is possible to port them and end up with crap.
I'd much rather spend the money on a set of Stealth heads ($1000) and after checking clearances, etc, run them. When I want more power send them to MCH for CNC porting. They will make an easy 550hp out of the box, and probably more. They are lighter, new, and if there is a problem they can be welded successfully, unlike cast iron. They have a decent combustion chamber which will work with a flat top piston at zero deck. They will allow you to run a point more compression which aids power and mileage. Or step up a notch to Edelbrocks, USA built, with the same results.
In the end it's your money, spend it as you like. I know what I'd do.
R.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: dogdays]
#1036974
07/21/11 05:53 PM
07/21/11 05:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I don't get it. There's NOTHING MAGICAL about 906 heads. They came on all the bigblocks, 383 2-barrels for example. They are 43 years old. They have an AWFUL combustion chamber. When ported within an inch of their life they have problems with cracking or porting into a casting flaw which on an exhaust port pretty much kills the head. Unless the porter knows what he is doing it is possible to port them and end up with crap.
I'd much rather spend the money on a set of Stealth heads ($1000) and after checking clearances, etc, run them. When I want more power send them to MCH for CNC porting. They will make an easy 550hp out of the box, and probably more. They are lighter, new, and if there is a problem they can be welded successfully, unlike cast iron. They have a decent combustion chamber which will work with a flat top piston at zero deck. They will allow you to run a point more compression which aids power and mileage. Or step up a notch to Edelbrocks, USA built, with the same results.
In the end it's your money, spend it as you like. I know what I'd do.
R.
But he might get a deal on them ???
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1036975
07/21/11 06:01 PM
07/21/11 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1036976
07/21/11 10:44 PM
07/21/11 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't get it. There's NOTHING MAGICAL about 906 heads. They came on all the bigblocks, 383 2-barrels for example. They are 43 years old. They have an AWFUL combustion chamber. When ported within an inch of their life they have problems with cracking or porting into a casting flaw which on an exhaust port pretty much kills the head. Unless the porter knows what he is doing it is possible to port them and end up with crap.
I'd much rather spend the money on a set of Stealth heads ($1000) and after checking clearances, etc, run them. When I want more power send them to MCH for CNC porting. They will make an easy 550hp out of the box, and probably more. They are lighter, new, and if there is a problem they can be welded successfully, unlike cast iron. They have a decent combustion chamber which will work with a flat top piston at zero deck. They will allow you to run a point more compression which aids power and mileage. Or step up a notch to Edelbrocks, USA built, with the same results.
In the end it's your money, spend it as you like. I know what I'd do.
R.
But he might get a deal on them ???
Yeah, 800-900 for a set of heads that have had all the machine work done to them including port work done to them is a fair price I'd say. If it turns out I don't get them, I will be going to a set of eddy heads. The reason I didn't want to go to stealth heads is a need for changing some parts out in the heads for a higher quality. I'm not saying a bad head but at the same time I don't want to drop a valve out of them. I've heard lots of good things about edelbrock heads so I would be willing to step up and shell out more for them.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: dogdays]
#1036977
07/21/11 11:39 PM
07/21/11 11:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Redding,CA USA
440charger500
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Redding,CA USA
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I built a similar combo to Ron's AKA (383MAN). Mine is a .40 over 440 with KB236 pistons, O deck selfported 906's (I will never do that again) stock valves, iskey iron 1.5's, comp 285HL, eddie Rpm with 850 holley, 1 7/8 headers full 2.5" exhausts with dynomax ultraflows, 4.30 gears 10" Dynamics 3800 28" slicks went consistent 12.50's @ 107mph in a 70 charger @ 4000lbs. I'm happy with it just must not be as good a engine builder as 383man, his really hauled A$$.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: 440charger500]
#1036978
07/21/11 11:50 PM
07/21/11 11:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,225
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,225
Someplace you aren't
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600-700 is plenty for used 906 heads, and they better check out to what is claimed. I don't care what was done way back when either. More than that and new heads look like a pretty good deal. Looks like you are on track for a nice build.
I want my fair share
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: 440charger500]
#1036979
07/22/11 12:07 AM
07/22/11 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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While your block is at the shop, you have a great opportunity to dial in deck height and quench. "Quench" means a dcent area on the piston almost touches the head at TDC. .040" clearnace is best. The aggressive stirring action when the piston comes up reduces the possibility of detonation so you can run higher CR or more timing. Its a win win as both power and fuel economy increase.
Achieving quench is easiest with the closed chamber Ed heads. You use a flat top or "D dish" piston at zero deck - meaning the piston comes right up to the top of the block. With a common .038-.042" gasket you have great quench.
The surest way to get there is to have the top deck of the block machined just enough to get it square, pick and buy your piston/rod combo for zero deck, and get your shop to mock it up. If the piston is a bit down in the hole, the shop can take a little more off the block. If its a little high, you can choose a thicker gasket... there are some off the shelf offerings or Cometic can make you a custom thickness. With the fairly aggressive cams you are looking at you should be able to run 10.3-10.5 compression easily with Al heads. 9.5 with iron. With 906 heads you need the quench pad piston to get quench. The pistons have to be fitted to the heads by machining the quench pad to get the correct clearance. If you can do the work and enjoy it it may be a good deal. If you pay a shop to measure/fit, not such a good deal.
On the head, I'll echo what others have said. The Ed head breathes well, is happy with no lead gas, is light and is well made. A highly ported set of 906's is ??.
Which ever head you pick should be checked by your machinist. Valve guide fit check, valve job check and upgrade to 10 degree locks and retainers are basic prep for high po use.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: 440charger500]
#1036980
07/22/11 02:36 AM
07/22/11 02:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
I built a similar combo to Ron's AKA (383MAN). Mine is a .40 over 440 with KB236 pistons, O deck selfported 906's (I will never do that again) stock valves, iskey iron 1.5's, comp 285HL, eddie Rpm with 850 holley, 1 7/8 headers full 2.5" exhausts with dynomax ultraflows, 4.30 gears 10" Dynamics 3800 28" slicks went consistent 12.50's @ 107mph in a 70 charger @ 4000lbs. I'm happy with it just must not be as good a engine builder as 383man, his really hauled A$$.
Thanks for the kind words but at 4000 lbs your Charger ran pretty darn good. Ron
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME]
#1036981
07/22/11 08:47 AM
07/22/11 08:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Yeah, 800-900 for a set of heads that have had all the machine work done to them including port work done to them is a fair price I'd say. If it turns out I don't get them, I will be going to a set of eddy heads. The reason I didn't want to go to stealth heads is a need for changing some parts out in the heads for a higher quality. I'm not saying a bad head but at the same time I don't want to drop a valve out of them. I've heard lots of good things about edelbrock heads so I would be willing to step up and shell out more for them.
That's not that great a deal without a flow sheet off a bench that gives numbers you trust. as far as changing parts on the heads , you may have to do the same thing to the ebrocks , the springs one uses should be those recommended by the cam maker , not some generic spring that won't coil bind at a certian lift .
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1036982
07/22/11 10:32 PM
07/22/11 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, 800-900 for a set of heads that have had all the machine work done to them including port work done to them is a fair price I'd say. If it turns out I don't get them, I will be going to a set of eddy heads. The reason I didn't want to go to stealth heads is a need for changing some parts out in the heads for a higher quality. I'm not saying a bad head but at the same time I don't want to drop a valve out of them. I've heard lots of good things about edelbrock heads so I would be willing to step up and shell out more for them.
That's not that great a deal without a flow sheet off a bench that gives numbers you trust. as far as changing parts on the heads , you may have to do the same thing to the ebrocks , the springs one uses should be those recommended by the cam maker , not some generic spring that won't coil bind at a certian lift .
I'm sure I can go find out... The place that I'm getting my work done at is the same place that did these heads and they have a flow bench there, it is probably on file somewhere, I'll ask the next time I'm on the phone with them.
As far as the eddy heads go, they claim the springs to be good to .600" valve lift and I wasn't planning anything over .550" shouldn't have any problems there
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: JoesMopar]
#1036984
07/22/11 11:04 PM
07/22/11 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
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Quote:
$800-$900 for a set of used "reworked" 906 heads?......You have officially achieved crack smoker status.
 Lol, definitely got a kick outta that. Yea, I suppose you're right, might as well step up to the good stuff if I'm already this deep into it. If it hits 500 Hp and FPT I'll be happy with it.
Or maybe it's this guy that has achieved 'smoker status' http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DOD...sQ5fAccessories
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME]
#1036985
07/22/11 11:56 PM
07/22/11 11:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
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Quote:
Or maybe it's this guy that has achieved 'smoker status' http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DOD...sQ5fAccessories
Yes he has, and check out his rating. The advantages of a closed chamber aluminum head far exceed any kind of deal you'll get on the 906's. The only thing you MIGHT have to swap, depending on your cam, is the valve springs during the cam break in period. After which, just put the springs back on that came with the heads.
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Re: 440 build in 2 weeks, what do you think so far?
[Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME]
#1036989
07/23/11 12:57 AM
07/23/11 12:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
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Quote:
Well, it was only 60 some odd dollars I believe and its a melling pump, it should be fine.
You will need a hardened intermediate shaft though.
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