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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: w7smallblock]
#1035496
07/20/11 08:38 AM
07/20/11 08:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,327
south central,Pa
mopar_to_ya
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,327
south central,Pa
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I agree 5oo hp is 5oo hp. But my opinion is, that if both cars are same hp, at same weight, and properly geared with all the right parts in all the right places, they should be very close the same ET. Because the small block will have a more aggressive cam and wider rpm ramge to make 5oo hp, and also use a steeper converter. But because of the wider torque range, the big block "should" 60 ft better, and the small block "should" mph better, so I think it will equal out. My  Quote:
Oh by the way my car can beat your car and I could beat you at arm wrestling and my dad can beat up your dad.
1. I'll race ya! spot me to the 60 ft, my car is heavier with the trans hanging in it, 
2. I'll arm wrestle you! spot me 45* and let me use two arms, 
3. My Dads car has a WEDGE with a TORQUEFLITE, what's your Dads got? 
later Buddy
and btw, who is arguing with you?
It's a bigblock with a torque flight!!!
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: w7smallblock]
#1035497
07/20/11 09:18 AM
07/20/11 09:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Lets say you build a 440 and a 360 both stock stroke to make the same horse power (500hp). Do you agree the 440 will make more torque given the larger stroke? Do you think with properly matched gear and converter for the engines in say a 3000lb car will run the same ET? If they do run the same ET does this mean the smallblock would recover in between gear changes quicker to make up for being down on torque. I am trying to end an argument, so your thoughts please.
I'll take the engine that makes the 500hp at the higher rpm and hangs on better after peak.
I will gear and converter that engine accordingly and take my chances. You can keep the low rpm torque.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#1035499
07/20/11 11:36 AM
07/20/11 11:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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if they are the same weight (which i don't think was mentioned by the op), they'll run real close. real close.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: maximum entropy]
#1035501
07/20/11 04:00 PM
07/20/11 04:00 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
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Perhaps we should take a look at the guys that are wringing every little bit out of the stock combos. Stock eliminator. Who is the fastest 340 or 360 in stock eliminator? Who is the fastest big block (non factory racecar) running in stock eliminator? I honestly dont know but it would be a decent indicator. Especially since the big block cars SHOULD weigh more. Just a thought.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1035505
07/20/11 07:11 PM
07/20/11 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They BOTH have to make 500 HP AND weigh 3000 lbs.
Looks like the original poster isn't going to settle
any argument and started one here.
 I'm going to throw a cow chip in this thread and leave it alone, before  !! How come
so many GOOD POINTS were produced in THIS thread, and not too many on the "383 vs. 440" thread? Hmm, basically the concept is the SAME, with the EXCEPTION of the vehicle weight.
Humm...... Cow Chip.....  ..... How high do you turn your cow  ....... .......
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: w7smallblock]
#1035506
07/20/11 07:30 PM
07/20/11 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
I agree with Chris's barracuda horse power is horse power which is derived from torque on a dyno. So 500hp runs the same in a 3000lb car no matter what CI it is. :
Technically this is correct, The Dyno doesnt know the CI size of the motor while measuring the torque to get the Calculated 500 HP.
Both torque readings will be variably different and at different RPMs to get the 500 HP.
These cars arent raced down the track @ exactly 500 HP. They usually run in a rpm band with of about 1000 to 1500 Its in that dwell time that the 500 HP BB will have the advantage over the 500 HP SB
As the SB will have a more Peaky powerband vs the BB broader powerband. The longer stroke of the BB will have more torque then the SB,
So IMO, even though Both motors will produce 500HP, its the power under the curve in the combos powerband thats going to have more effect on ET then just the Peak 500HP
Now you might argue that if Both cars are run down the track with verts Right at their HP peaks,start to finsh, the BB say at 6250 rpm and the SB at 6850 rpm. Then would they be Equal?
Technically , they should be, but lets not forget the 500HP is still a Calculated number based off of two different RPMs
The reality of the comparison on paper looks good, but the reality of the track is different.IMO
It would be a fun test though, but in reality could we really trust the calculated numbers to be accurate. Heck around here we have dynos that are 100 HP off from one another sometimes.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: w7smallblock]
#1035510
07/21/11 12:55 AM
07/21/11 12:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
I guess this will never be settled so my argument with my buddies will just go on. But it dosen't matter he knows deep down inside that he's wrong and I'm right 
If you take a car with a 500 hp 360 and take it to the track it'll run a number. Now, if you take that same car, pull the 360, stuff a 500 hp 440 in it and take it back to the track (traction not being an issue), it will go faster.
I had a 408" (I know that's not a 360) small block, 11.2:1 cr, 270 cfm eddie heads, torker II intake, cam was 231/237, .560 lift on a 108. Based on others' builds, I would say it was pushing 475-485 hp. The cheap POS eagle cast crank broke after 6000 miles (rated to 500 hp and 7000 rpm!!) ((my own fault, shoulda known better)) so I built a 440. Stock crank, stock rods, KB flat tops, ported 452 heads that were also in the 270 range on the intakes. Don't know what the compression is (don't care, it runs on pump 87 at 5500 ft) 228/236 cam (TQ50), less lift 110 lobe sep. Torker II intake and I dynoed this one. 485 hp, 507 tq. Everything else was the same. Truck is faster with the BB. Same 750 carb as well. 440 needs more timing, sounds pretty good, 408 had a wicked exhaust note with that compression and a little more overlap.
My point being, car being the same, the 440 will start pulling harder, sooner due to the extra cubic inches, no so much because of the longer stroke, which is only .160" longer. Start changing the car to favor each specific engine and the results may be different.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1035511
07/21/11 01:08 AM
07/21/11 01:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Which one weighs more.. A: 1 pound of Lead... B: 1 pound of feathers... Maybe that will help.. Has nothing to do with "Big or Small" blocks.. Chris... 
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1035512
07/21/11 01:26 AM
07/21/11 01:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Which one weighs more..
A: 1 pound of Lead...
B: 1 pound of feathers...
Maybe that will help..
Has nothing to do with "Big or Small" blocks..
Chris...
Heres my comparison analogy
Witch one hits the ground first.., from a 1320' drop!
A: 1 pound of lead..
B: 1 pound of feathers..
Has nothing to do with "Big or Small" blocks..
Mike
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Sport440]
#1035513
07/21/11 01:29 AM
07/21/11 01:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Which one weighs more..
A: 1 pound of Lead...
B: 1 pound of feathers...
Maybe that will help..
Has nothing to do with "Big or Small" blocks..
Chris...
Heres my comparison analogy
Witch one hits the ground first.., from a 1320' drop!
A: 1 pound of lead..
B: 1 pound of feathers..
Has nothing to do with "Big or Small" blocks..
Mike
WELL, if the pound of feathers is in the shape of a parachute...
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1035514
07/21/11 01:31 AM
07/21/11 01:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 320
PA
w7smallblock
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 320
PA
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If you take a car with a 500 hp 360 and take it to the track it'll run a number. Now, if you take that same car, pull the 360, stuff a 500 hp 440 in it and take it back to the track (traction not being an issue), it will go faster.
I had a 408" (I know that's not a 360) small block, 11.2:1 cr, 270 cfm eddie heads, torker II intake, cam was 231/237, .560 lift on a 108. Based on others' builds, I would say it was pushing 475-485 hp. The cheap POS eagle cast crank broke after 6000 miles (rated to 500 hp and 7000 rpm!!) ((my own fault, shoulda known better)) so I built a 440. Stock crank, stock rods, KB flat tops, ported 452 heads that were also in the 270 range on the intakes. Don't know what the compression is (don't care, it runs on pump 87 at 5500 ft) 228/236 cam (TQ50), less lift 110 lobe sep. Torker II intake and I dynoed this one. 485 hp, 507 tq. Everything else was the same. Truck is faster with the BB. Same 750 carb as well. 440 needs more timing, sounds pretty good, 408 had a wicked exhaust note with that compression and a little more overlap.
My point being, car being the same, the 440 will start pulling harder, sooner due to the extra cubic inches, no so much because of the longer stroke, which is only .160" longer. Start changing the car to favor each specific engine and the results may be different.
You need to go back and reread my post it says 500hp each with converter and gears to match the motors rpm range. You put a 440 where you had a 408. You also said you never dynoed the 408 but did the 440 so this tells me you got everything out of the 440 being dyno tuned and the 408 was not to it's full potential. Correct me if my statement is not true.
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