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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: Stanton]
#1035222
07/19/11 06:48 PM
07/19/11 06:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
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Quote:
Revving a motor when you don't have to is asking for trouble. Biuld a big-inch thumper with enough torque that you don't need a huge gear or ridiculous converter. Pick the piston carefully such that you have reasonable compression but you can machine for quench. Forget about HP numbers - since they're a function of torque and RPM you won't see the HP numbers you're looking for till the motor is revved higher than you'd want in a street motor (700 hp at 7000 rpm ain't worth squat if it doesn't have the torque to pull away from a stop sign). Focus on torque - a 500 HP motor with 500 ft/lb of torque at 2000 rpm is a killer street motor.
Your right 500 hp and 500 torque at 2000 rpms is around what Im looking for. Could I get those numbers out of a 451 stroker or do I need go 440 stroker or just a 400 block with more displacement?
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035223
07/19/11 07:00 PM
07/19/11 07:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quote:
Quote:
Revving a motor when you don't have to is asking for trouble. Biuld a big-inch thumper with enough torque that you don't need a huge gear or ridiculous converter. Pick the piston carefully such that you have reasonable compression but you can machine for quench. Forget about HP numbers - since they're a function of torque and RPM you won't see the HP numbers you're looking for till the motor is revved higher than you'd want in a street motor (700 hp at 7000 rpm ain't worth squat if it doesn't have the torque to pull away from a stop sign). Focus on torque - a 500 HP motor with 500 ft/lb of torque at 2000 rpm is a killer street motor.
Your right 500 hp and 500 torque at 2000 rpms is around what Im looking for. Could I get those numbers out of a 451 stroker or do I need go 440 stroker or just a 400 block with more displacement?
What car are you putting this in? A low deck based stroker fits better in a A body, the 400 has a larger bore than a 440 so you basically make the same size engine, but have more intake choices for the 440 engine .
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035226
07/20/11 03:34 AM
07/20/11 03:34 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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My old 451 stroker made near 600 HP with 11:1 compression, B1-B/S Heads, and a small 251/251 solid roller 0.612/0.612" lift, M1 Intake and Holley HP carb, 2" headers, and the Milodon low profile oil pan with 1/2 pickup.
The new 500" stroker (4.15" stroke)in the car has the longer 6.76" rods, and flat top pistons.
Edelbrock Victor MaxWedge port heads, and a 264/264, 0.714"/0.714", 112 LSA cam, Indy intake and I reused the oil pan, headers and Holley HP 1,000 carb (it's really two small for the engine, but It's paid for.)
This chassis dynoed at over 558 RWHP @ 6,000 RPM in full street trim. Full 3" exhaust with dynomax mufflers, all accessories, mechanical fan/waterpump, power steering, 136 Amp alternator, 14x3" air filter, and 100 octane unleaded.
Engine could have used more cam, but it will idle nice and smooth at 800-1000 RPM.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: JohnRR]
#1035227
07/20/11 03:40 AM
07/20/11 03:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Revving a motor when you don't have to is asking for trouble. Biuld a big-inch thumper with enough torque that you don't need a huge gear or ridiculous converter. Pick the piston carefully such that you have reasonable compression but you can machine for quench. Forget about HP numbers - since they're a function of torque and RPM you won't see the HP numbers you're looking for till the motor is revved higher than you'd want in a street motor (700 hp at 7000 rpm ain't worth squat if it doesn't have the torque to pull away from a stop sign). Focus on torque - a 500 HP motor with 500 ft/lb of torque at 2000 rpm is a killer street motor.
Your right 500 hp and 500 torque at 2000 rpms is around what Im looking for. Could I get those numbers out of a 451 stroker or do I need go 440 stroker or just a 400 block with more displacement?
What car are you putting this in? A low deck based stroker fits better in a A body, the 400 has a larger bore than a 440 so you basically make the same size engine, but have more intake choices for the 440 engine .
Its going into a challenger that has a 383 in it already.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035228
07/20/11 08:41 AM
07/20/11 08:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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Ontario, Canada
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Buy the time you do all that needs to be done to your stuff a 512 kit will be the same money (or less) and have way more torque and be way more streetable with a medium cam and port work. (plus you can sell your stuff) 600 hp gross and 450 torque out of a 451 ends up being a race motor basically. 600+ hp and 600 torque out of a 512 is a big bad friendly cat!!! that purrs and still eats chevy's and Fords.  
Last edited by Dodgem; 07/20/11 08:43 AM.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035229
07/20/11 08:45 AM
07/20/11 08:45 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
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Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Guys I have been thinking of going with a 400 block stroker. Originally I was gonna say a 451 but I have been seeing info stating they can produce between 600-700 hp. Is this true and if it is what size displacement would most likely be required to get those kind of numbers?
How about 726 HP with a basic 452?
Goes to show all the cubes in the world doesn't mean a lot unless you have the heads that flow.
Check out the results of the 2009 Amsoil/Mopar Engine Challenge - link:
1st) Schurbon Engine and Machine - 452ci, 582HP, 544lb/ft
2nd) Chenoweth Speed And Machine - 452ci, 589HP, 518lb/ft
3rd) Laroy Engines - 452ci, 726HP, 568lb/ft
4th) Promax Performance - 451ci, 568HP, 518lb/ft
5th) Mid America Racing Engines - 500ci, 697HP, 619lb/ft
6th) JD Engine and Machine - 499ci, 724HP, 610lb/ft
7th) R.M. Competition - 512ci, 628HP, 596lb/ft
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: CompSyn]
#1035230
07/20/11 09:28 AM
07/20/11 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Guys I have been thinking of going with a 400 block stroker. Originally I was gonna say a 451 but I have been seeing info stating they can produce between 600-700 hp. Is this true and if it is what size displacement would most likely be required to get those kind of numbers?
How about 726 HP with a basic 452?
Goes to show all the cubes in the world doesn't mean a lot unless you have the heads that flow.
Check out the results of the 2009 Amsoil/Mopar Engine Challenge - link:
1st) Schurbon Engine and Machine - 452ci, 582HP, 544lb/ft
2nd) Chenoweth Speed And Machine - 452ci, 589HP, 518lb/ft
3rd) Laroy Engines - 452ci, 726HP, 568lb/ft
4th) Promax Performance - 451ci, 568HP, 518lb/ft
5th) Mid America Racing Engines - 500ci, 697HP, 619lb/ft
6th) JD Engine and Machine - 499ci, 724HP, 610lb/ft
7th) R.M. Competition - 512ci, 628HP, 596lb/ft
That's nice but those engines are not what one would call street friendly.
For what the OP is after a 3.9, or better a 4.25 stroke, is the way to go.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: JohnRR]
#1035231
07/20/11 10:10 AM
07/20/11 10:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Guys I have been thinking of going with a 400 block stroker. Originally I was gonna say a 451 but I have been seeing info stating they can produce between 600-700 hp. Is this true and if it is what size displacement would most likely be required to get those kind of numbers?
How about 726 HP with a basic 452?
Goes to show all the cubes in the world doesn't mean a lot unless you have the heads that flow.
Check out the results of the 2009 Amsoil/Mopar Engine Challenge - link:
1st) Schurbon Engine and Machine - 452ci, 582HP, 544lb/ft
2nd) Chenoweth Speed And Machine - 452ci, 589HP, 518lb/ft
3rd) Laroy Engines - 452ci, 726HP, 568lb/ft
4th) Promax Performance - 451ci, 568HP, 518lb/ft
5th) Mid America Racing Engines - 500ci, 697HP, 619lb/ft
6th) JD Engine and Machine - 499ci, 724HP, 610lb/ft
7th) R.M. Competition - 512ci, 628HP, 596lb/ft
That's nice but those engines are not what one would call street friendly.
For what the OP is after a 3.9, or better a 4.25 stroke, is the way to go.
The original post didn't ask about "street friendly".
Example given:
Question: Is it true a 451 stroker can make 600-700hp?
Answer: Yes
I guess the definition of street friendly would vary per individual but for what it's worth the engines in the Mopar Challenge are claimed to run on 93 octane fuel.
But agreed, those engines are indeed dyno queens designed for peak power on the dyno.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: Dodgem]
#1035232
07/20/11 02:51 PM
07/20/11 02:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
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Quote:
Buy the time you do all that needs to be done to your stuff a 512 kit will be the same money (or less) and have way more torque and be way more streetable with a medium cam and port work. (plus you can sell your stuff)
600 hp gross and 450 torque out of a 451 ends up being a race motor basically.
600+ hp and 600 torque out of a 512 is a big bad friendly cat!!!
that purrs and still eats chevy's and Fords.
If I go with a bigger stroker than the 451 will I lose benefits I was gaining versus not doing a 440 stroker? I.E. using longer rods and having less of a stock configuration? Also if possible I would like to avoid using external oiling if possible. I dont want more hard alterations than is needed for good power.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035234
07/20/11 04:00 PM
07/20/11 04:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Read for yourself http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htmthe 400/512 uses a shorter rod 6.535 the long rod thing is over blow good for 2 or 3 extra torque Or since you have a challenger with plenty under hood room go 440/512 and get 7.1 rod and i like the longer piston skirt the 440 512 kit gives but that is just me. both can use internal pick up just massage the boss and maybe the bottoms of cylinders a smig then make sure pick up is postioned so crank turns freely before putting oil pan on. Crank girdle is a good idea too
Last edited by Dodgem; 07/20/11 04:02 PM.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: CompSyn]
#1035235
07/20/11 06:12 PM
07/20/11 06:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
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Quote:
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Quote:
Quote:
Guys I have been thinking of going with a 400 block stroker. Originally I was gonna say a 451 but I have been seeing info stating they can produce between 600-700 hp. Is this true and if it is what size displacement would most likely be required to get those kind of numbers?
How about 726 HP with a basic 452?
Goes to show all the cubes in the world doesn't mean a lot unless you have the heads that flow.
Check out the results of the 2009 Amsoil/Mopar Engine Challenge - link:
1st) Schurbon Engine and Machine - 452ci, 582HP, 544lb/ft
2nd) Chenoweth Speed And Machine - 452ci, 589HP, 518lb/ft
3rd) Laroy Engines - 452ci, 726HP, 568lb/ft
4th) Promax Performance - 451ci, 568HP, 518lb/ft
5th) Mid America Racing Engines - 500ci, 697HP, 619lb/ft
6th) JD Engine and Machine - 499ci, 724HP, 610lb/ft
7th) R.M. Competition - 512ci, 628HP, 596lb/ft
That's nice but those engines are not what one would call street friendly.
For what the OP is after a 3.9, or better a 4.25 stroke, is the way to go.
The original post didn't ask about "street friendly".
Example given:
Question: Is it true a 451 stroker can make 600-700hp?
Answer: Yes
I guess the definition of street friendly would vary per individual but for what it's worth the engines in the Mopar Challenge are claimed to run on 93 octane fuel.
But agreed, those engines are indeed dyno queens designed for peak power on the dyno.
Sorry I kinda did mean street friendy
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035236
07/20/11 10:37 PM
07/20/11 10:37 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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My 500" stroked 400 had great street manners, but with 12.4:1 compression you may have to run 100+ octane? I live in Denver and have ran it on 92 pump for about 40 miles until I could put 100 octane in it. Had no problems, but didn't want to take a chance?
The 11:1 compression 451 ran fine on 92 octane pump gas.
If you are going to build a 500+ engine for 600+ HP, you will want to start with a cylinder head with max wedge ports.
A 451" or mild 500+ will be OK with standard port heads.
I am currently building a mild 505" stroked 440 (0.030" over with 4.25" stroke, and 7.1" rods.)
This is only about 10.3:1 compression (17cc dished pistons) with 440 source stroker kit and stealth heads. I plan to run a moderate sized hydraulic roller cam. It should run great on pump gas, but I know that I am leaving alot of power on the table using the smaller port heads, and mild cam.
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035238
07/21/11 12:35 AM
07/21/11 12:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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400 B block/3.9"(offset 440 crank)/RB rods for 470 cubes/ heads to support it/better rods depending on your intentions
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1035239
07/21/11 03:44 AM
07/21/11 03:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
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Quote:
My 500" stroked 400 had great street manners, but with 12.4:1 compression you may have to run 100+ octane? I live in Denver and have ran it on 92 pump for about 40 miles until I could put 100 octane in it. Had no problems, but didn't want to take a chance?
The 11:1 compression 451 ran fine on 92 octane pump gas.
If you are going to build a 500+ engine for 600+ HP, you will want to start with a cylinder head with max wedge ports.
A 451" or mild 500+ will be OK with standard port heads.
I am currently building a mild 505" stroked 440 (0.030" over with 4.25" stroke, and 7.1" rods.)
This is only about 10.3:1 compression (17cc dished pistons) with 440 source stroker kit and stealth heads. I plan to run a moderate sized hydraulic roller cam. It should run great on pump gas, but I know that I am leaving alot of power on the table using the smaller port heads, and mild cam.
What kind of power are you expecting from the 505 stroker? What kind of performance did your 451 give you. I wanna run pumped california gas and get decent performance. I can get my stealth heads ported I know that will give me more performance. I want at least 450+ hp at the wheels. I am hearing so many mixed things about what would be best 440/400 stroker? Many say the 400 block is far stronger. I already have a 440 block with stock rods and a crank. I can get a 400 block but if its not gonna make a better motor than a stroked 440 then its not worth the extra trouble of getting the block. However if I can save a lil cash and build a motor meeting my needs then its a win win
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Re: What kind of power can you get from a stroked 400 block
[Re: torqueaddict]
#1035240
07/21/11 08:26 AM
07/21/11 08:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
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pro stock
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Quote:
What if I use a set of ported stealth heads and go with 11.1 compression what kind of numbers would I be looking at then? I already have the stealths and I wanna run pumped gas. I found a 400 motor for sale. I already have the 440 rods and the stock forged crank. I will just need a good set of pistons and my machine guy to do a port job for me.
You have a low deck car so keep it low deck with the 400 block combo, just saying.
Also, since you're practically there with the 440 rods/crank and have the 400 block located, seems like you're well on your way to a potent and economical street/strip 451 build. Myself, I like the 451 build because it's based on the Chrysler 440 which has a proven track record and what many of the off-the-shelf camshafts and heads are designed around. Plus, there's plenty of potential there for good power and torque. You just have to ask yourself what you really want out of your build. Do you really need to dump gobs of money into a good aftermarket stroker kit to get what you want? Could be yes, could be no?
If you do go decide go with the bigger inch stroker, just be prepared to invest more money into cnc head porting and the like to get the needed flow requirements otherwise you won't be gaining much over the well planed 451.
Or we could just go visit the 383 vs. 440 thread and talk about building a potent 383 
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