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Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
#1013208
06/14/11 12:55 PM
06/14/11 12:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
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..... in a door car(a very uNusual door-car indeed  ) ... space might be a prob(very short rear overhang) uNless the springs were shortened on the back half. What would be the EZiest to do(for the chassis guy) ... and the cheapest as far as parts ?
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1013211
06/14/11 01:25 PM
06/14/11 01:25 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,421
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,421
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Honestly, I think the intended HP should be the final decider, but I love ladder bars for the ease of maintenance, adjustments, and just simplicity. We have started racing a 4-link car, I have to say, I do not have the knowledge at this time to get it set-up correctly. To say there are more adjustments, is an understatement.
Ultimitly, tire size and hp for your combination will be the factors. The four link will hook a small tire car with a lot of hp better than a ladder bar set-up, but a good ladder bar set-up can be really good as well.
If there is room for leafs, Caltracs and mono's are the way to go...
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: go green]
#1013212
06/14/11 03:09 PM
06/14/11 03:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Drinking in the morning is not a good way to start your day. 
I see nothing wrong with it. 
I always suggest to go 4 link. Reason being is why not just spend the couple hundred extra one time, then you have a suspension for life. Future power upgrades (and you know there will be some, don't kid yourself) are now not a worry because you will have the suspension to handle it.
Leafs and CalTracs? Only if you have to keep the leaf spring or just won't ever cut the car up.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: go green]
#1013213
06/14/11 05:08 PM
06/14/11 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Drinking in the morning is not a good way to start your day.
I think go-green has been sniffing tooo many of those NITRO fumes he burns in that 'Cuda !
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Quicktree]
#1013215
06/14/11 07:51 PM
06/14/11 07:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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"Dave Morgan told me , when he spent a few days at my house...." OKAY,,let's hear ALL ABOUT the 'visitation',,,sounds 'gay' to me... Hope you all got the 'angle' right..!! I'm SORRY,,just couldn't help myself,,,
Last edited by CHAPPER; 06/14/11 07:53 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1013216
06/14/11 07:55 PM
06/14/11 07:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
"Dave Morgan told me , when he spent a few days at my house...."
OKAY,,let's hear ALL ABOUT the 'visitation',,,sounds 'gay' to me...
Hope you all got the 'angle' right..!! I'm SORRY,,just couldn't help myself,,,
thats because you are gay and think gay 
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013220
06/14/11 09:17 PM
06/14/11 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
....should it have been mentioned that this is my mid-engined Caravan project ?
There is not a lot of area for the rear half of the spring in there ...
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Quicktree]
#1013221
06/14/11 09:59 PM
06/14/11 09:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
....should it have been mentioned that this is my mid-engined Caravan project ?
There is not a lot of area for the rear half of the spring in there ...
I've heard fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life...but it's worked out OK for me.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Quicktree]
#1013222
06/14/11 10:49 PM
06/14/11 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,537
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
....should it have been mentioned that this is my mid-engined Caravan project ?
There is not a lot of area for the rear half of the spring in there ...
 ... the rear-half of a STD or even typical SS spring.
What are the typical costs of a 4 link kit that will be STREETED .... how about the spring-and shock combo?
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013223
06/14/11 11:00 PM
06/14/11 11:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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No more STD's please! Wear a helmet.
As for springs and shocks the price is the same if it's a ladder bar or four link. It's the rod ends that drive the price up. I suggest buying the best ones you can though. Springs and shocks you can cheap out on if its a street car and upgrade later if you want to get serious.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1013224
06/14/11 11:09 PM
06/14/11 11:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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my first would be , sure go min of ladder bars, best option of 4 bar, then i think of all the money that had to be spend , and rethink it ,, LEAF SPRINGS!!!!!! MAKE THE CAR AS LITE AS STREET CAR COULD BE ,10"/11" TIRE 451 STROKE ON E 85 391=410 GEAR. HAVE FUN ON SHOESTRING FAST RIDE!!   
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Randy..]
#1013226
06/14/11 11:47 PM
06/14/11 11:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
4 link, 300 adjustments and you will use about 3 of them, i would go ladder bar. 
Maybe but those three adjustments will still work better than the one out of three you'll use on a ladder car.
Many here seem to make a big deal about adjusting a 4 link, it's not that hard and it's not rocket surgery either. Jeez, you own a race car, did you build it, work on it or do you just write a check and drive it? You guys make it out to be quantum physics or something.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: Randy..]
#1013228
06/15/11 12:11 AM
06/15/11 12:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Some people has mention adjustable... It can be a problem. That little Dakota truck I had I went with Ladder bars.
Ladder Bars can be pretty violent. It can be a problem to adjust down..up rather to tame the hit down.
I say 4 link. Yea its a little harder to adjust, heck anyone can get ladder bars to hook...
But the 4 link really enables one to infinite adjustment.
I guess some times 3 holes isnt enough.. And with a weird mid engine application, 4 link is a Non Brain'r.
Last edited by Bob_Coomer; 06/15/11 12:14 AM.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013229
06/15/11 03:02 AM
06/15/11 03:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,480
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,480
Canada
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I vote 4 link.
As said above, it's not a "usual" combination and you have no idea, you just MIGHT NEED the adjustability. Better to have it IMO...
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013231
06/15/11 10:09 AM
06/15/11 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Some times the space that you can play within dictates what suspension you can run... a 4 link takes less fore and aft distance BUT needs more vertical space where a ladder bar needs more for and aft but less vertical... on my Rampage I went with a ladder bar because of cost... I could have fit a 4-link in but I believe a anti roll bar is needed with a 4-link so thats added cost.... is a 4 link better... yes(and I have had both set ups on the same car)....this is JMO 
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013233
06/15/11 10:37 AM
06/15/11 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
THX guyz ....
Let me add something in here that MIGHT put the dampers on the 4 link ... a short driveshaft.
Just from eye-balling-it .... I might be dealing with a DS of something around 2.5 feet long. IF there is huge vertical movement ... with a short DS ..... will there not be severe U-joint issues ?
I do have the option of a short-shaft 727 .... but I would LIKE to be able to use a long-shaft.
I use a 38" DS on the P-Body with no issues... the
DS on my Rampage will be about the same
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013235
06/15/11 11:08 AM
06/15/11 11:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
What kind of vert movement is needed? ...less than with leafs ?
Alot of the shocks will have about 6" of total travel
so as a round figure its 3" both ways from curb height
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dOc !]
#1013236
06/15/11 01:05 PM
06/15/11 01:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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Quote:
..... in a door car(a very uNusual door-car indeed ) ... space might be a prob(very short rear overhang) uNless the springs were shortened on the back half.
What would be the EZiest to do(for the chassis guy) ... and the cheapest as far as parts ?
Nothin cheap about either 4 bar or ladder set ups
4 bar runs 500 and up
ladders are 250 up,
then depends on shocks you use,
nothin easy about either one set up take awhile and very hard to do at the track for any novice guy with out knowlege and use of the product because so much has to be taken into account, shock setting evoke pinnion angle set bar hieght, evokes shocks it not as easy as any on here say, despite most guys do not even touch their bars ,
or very few who do ,
question always must asked is it the car? , track? tires?
i know of several 4 bar cars that have not had bars reset in 10 years yet hook great and 60 dont change enough to warrent any ,
know of a guy who bought 4 bar car due to bad track , took the car to 2 diffrent chassie guys, had all the bars changed because they said the bars where to old and that was the reason the car wouldnt hook.
by the time everyone got done with the car, he was out of money and was sick of the car it sets to this day,
my car has ladder bars, coil overs, they where cheap ,@ 850$
 
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: dennismopar73]
#1013237
06/15/11 02:45 PM
06/15/11 02:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,697
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
know of a guy who bought 4 bar car due to bad track , took the car to 2 diffrent chassie guys, had all the bars changed because they said the bars where to old and that was the reason the car wouldnt hook.
by the time everyone got done with the car, he was out of money and was sick of the car it sets to this day,
my car has ladder bars, coil overs, they where cheap ,@ 850$
I think this guy got taken for a ride, and not in a good way. Just because someone ripped him off is not a reason to dismiss the four link. It's just not that complicated, simple geometry. And I think your prices are off, do a little research, a four link back half is pretty much the same price as a ladder bar except for the rod ends.
But whatever, I'd rather have CalTracs than a ladder bar, at least they have some adjustment in them. You all can do what you like.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Starting-from-scratch ....leafs, ladder or 4 link ....
[Re: emarine01]
#1013239
06/15/11 05:42 PM
06/15/11 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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if I were to start a new project, I would definately go with a 4 link this time, I have had leaf springs under the car, then leaf's with floater's and ladderbars, then coilover's with ladderbars, each time was an upgrade for me, I have noticed that ladderbars are more violent in the initial launch, which on a marginal track can cause issues off the line,but most of the guy's that run 4 link systems seem to have less launch issues once the bars are set correctly,, I just think that 4 links will work in a broader range of track conditions before adjustments are needed. jmo
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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