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Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009101
06/09/11 03:38 PM
06/09/11 03:38 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?!




If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833




Exactly John...

For some reason I thought you couldn't remove the main shaft without dropping the cluster on an 18-spline. maybe I am getting confused with the OD.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009102
06/09/11 05:47 PM
06/09/11 05:47 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Quote:

If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833




tell me how you'd get the shaft out from the front - particularly since there's a key in the back !!!

Last edited by not_a_charger; 06/09/11 07:52 PM.
Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009103
06/10/11 08:44 AM
06/10/11 08:44 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833




tell me how you'd get the shaft out from the front - particularly since there's a key in the back !!!




Your post was edited by not a charger ??? ... you just can't get over the diarrhea of the keyboard you seem to be afflicted with ??? I'm a little disappointed that it was edited by a mod because I enjoy reading the venom you

Stanton I'll ASSuME you either have never taken apart a an OD 4 speed or do not have a factory service manual .... I'm curious if you have ever taken apart an 833 since you can't get the cluster pin out the front even after you pull the key off the back as you are suggesting.

First off you are correct that you do not drop the cluster shaft on any NON OD 833 to pull the tail and mainshaft with gears , and one would definitely not do it with the trans bolted to the bellhousing/engine as you are suggesting the OP do because there is no way to push the cluster pin to the rear.

But as far as dropping the cluster gear on an OD the manual tells you how to do it ... Unbolt the tailhousing , rotate it till you have clear access to the rear of the cluster pin , pull the soft plug from the front of the trans and push the pin out the back , the cluster gear drops down and the mainshaft is now easily able to be removed , repeat in reverse to assemble.


running up my post count some more .
Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009104
06/10/11 09:02 AM
06/10/11 09:02 AM
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Gilbertsville, PA 19525
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Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009105
06/10/11 10:36 AM
06/10/11 10:36 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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John-boy, do you actually read the posts before you reply or do you just have a hard time with the english language ?!?!?

Quote:

you can't get the cluster pin out the front even after you pull the key off the back as you are suggesting.




I never suggested that at all

Quote:

First off you are correct





Thank you John-boy ... this is one of the most intelligent statements you've made.

Quote:

and one would definitely not do it with the trans bolted to the bellhousing engine as you are suggesting the OP do because there is no way to push the cluster pin to the rear.




Never suggested that. In fact I actually stated why it couldn't be done but of course you didn't read that post!!

Quote:

But as far as dropping the cluster gear on an OD the manual tells you how to do it ... Unbolt the tailhousing , rotate it till you have clear access to the rear of the cluster pin , pull the soft plug from the front of the trans and push the pin out the back , the cluster gear drops down and the mainshaft is now easily able to be removed , repeat in reverse to assemble.




This would be logical to me, I wouldn't need a manual for this.

And since its just eating away at you, I called you a smarta$$ and that's all they editted out.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009106
06/10/11 10:42 AM
06/10/11 10:42 AM
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Quote:

John-boy, do you actually read the posts before you reply or do you just have a hard time with the english language ?!?!?

Quote:

you can't get the cluster pin out the front even after you pull the key off the back as you are suggesting.




I never suggested that at all

Quote:

First off you are correct





Thank you John-boy ... this is one of the most intelligent statements you've made.

Quote:

and one would definitely not do it with the trans bolted to the bellhousing engine as you are suggesting the OP do because there is no way to push the cluster pin to the rear.




Never suggested that. In fact I actually stated why it couldn't be done but of course you didn't read that post!!

Quote:

But as far as dropping the cluster gear on an OD the manual tells you how to do it ... Unbolt the tailhousing , rotate it till you have clear access to the rear of the cluster pin , pull the soft plug from the front of the trans and push the pin out the back , the cluster gear drops down and the mainshaft is now easily able to be removed , repeat in reverse to assemble.




This would be logical to me, I wouldn't need a manual for this.

And since its just eating away at you, I called you a smarta$$ and that's all they editted out.





Stanton-girl nothing is eating away at me , I don't have a clue what your problem is ... well I have an idea but this is not the forum to hash that out in ... but you need to go back and reread what you said before you go accusing me of not being able to read or UNDERSTAND the English language ...


First you suggested this in your FIRST reply in this thread ...


Quote:

Pull the side cover, drop the driveshaft, yank the tailstock and replace all the brass rings, reassemble and drive it for years.




Sure sounds like you SUGGESTED to take the tailhousing and maingear assembly out with the trans still bolted to the bellhousing and installed in the car ...


Then you asked this when going after another member in the post the mod edited , did the mod also edit the question you posed? ...

Quote:

tell me how you'd get the shaft out from the front - particularly since there's a key in the back !!!




Once again , sounds like you asked how to get the cluster pin out of the front of the transmission after pulling the key off it?

As an aside since the OD cluster pin is a slip fit into the front of the case I think one could push the pin out the front after getting the key off ???

If the only logical thing I said was that you were correct, don't worry, that won't happen again.

volley


running up my post count some more .
Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009107
06/10/11 02:38 PM
06/10/11 02:38 PM
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Gilbertsville, PA 19525
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Re: manual trans question *DELETED* [Re: Pntastar69] #1009108
06/13/11 09:04 AM
06/13/11 09:04 AM
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New York
EF8aar Offline OP
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Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009109
06/13/11 09:38 AM
06/13/11 09:38 AM
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I assume the trans is still in the car , can't really see a lot from those pictures , there is evidence of a missed shift in there , don't know of any trans I have opened that didn't have that.

The wear on the fork is from driving around with ones hand on the shifter and putting a little pressure on it, that is not causing your shifting problem.

How is the downshift from second, when you can get it into it to first at speed greater than 5mph? Have you ever put it in 2nd, drove at speed and got on and off the throttle, if so does it pop out of second?

How did the oil look when it came out? Can you get some sort of magnet in thru the side cover into the bottom and see if there is anything metal down there?

For a test I would put a lighter oil in , maybe a mix of a GL4 oil and ATF and see if the problem still persists. If so your only choice is to drop the trans and go thru it, but it's probably going to be a little more than just changing the brass.

Pay particular attention to the condition of the syncro hubs, I rebuilt one that had ATF in it for I don't know how many miles, the cluster pin had significant wear and the inside of the slider hubs and the hubs themselves were all galled up and I spent a lot of time with a small stone cleaning them up, would have been easier to just replace them. You'll also want to take a dremel and small stone and dress down the teeth that the syncros engage , get points back on them.

Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009110
06/13/11 09:43 AM
06/13/11 09:43 AM
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Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009111
06/13/11 09:54 AM
06/13/11 09:54 AM
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New York
EF8aar Offline OP
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Thank you for responding. Just a little history, I bought this car with this problem, test drove it and saw how sloppy the linkages were and also could hear a slight gear or bearing noise. When I got the car I adjusted the rods and saw little improvement so I decided to rebuild the shifter. That made a big difference, but I was still not able to reach second and still heard the noise.

Yes, the trans is still in the car. I never really tested second gear like you said. Because I was afraid to drive it with that noise. The oil looked super clean when I drained it. I have reason to believe it's got GL-5 in it, because that's pretty much all I saw on the shelves at 4 stores this weekend (special order??), so I'm thinking the person before me who filled it just grabbed that. I will try a magnet tonight..

I sincerely appreciate your help. Thank you!

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009112
06/13/11 10:00 AM
06/13/11 10:00 AM
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Quote:

Thank you for responding. Just a little history, I bought this car with this problem, test drove it and saw how sloppy the linkages were and also could hear a slight gear or bearing noise. When I got the car I adjusted the rods and saw little improvement so I decided to rebuild the shifter. That made a big difference, but I was still not able to reach second and still heard the noise.

Yes, the trans is still in the car. I never really tested second gear like you said. Because I was afraid to drive it with that noise. The oil looked super clean when I drained it. I have reason to believe it's got GL-5 in it, because that's pretty much all I saw on the shelves at 4 stores this weekend (special order??), so I'm thinking the person before me who filled it just grabbed that. I will try a magnet tonight..

I sincerely appreciate your help. Thank you!




I would do the fluid test as cheaply as possible , fill it with ATF , and confirm the clutch is adjusted correctly and go for a drive , but if it's making a noise I would think you should just pull it and rebuild it, just get it over with considering the fluid is drained already.

Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009113
06/13/11 12:02 PM
06/13/11 12:02 PM
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New York
EF8aar Offline OP
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Thank you for the excellent advice. I have never rebuilt a manual transmission, but I'm going to give it a shot. Besides, I plan to keep the car and I want to be part of bringing up to the next level.

A big THANK YOU for all the members for their excellent input as well..

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009114
06/13/11 02:01 PM
06/13/11 02:01 PM
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New York
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pics












Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009115
06/13/11 02:12 PM
06/13/11 02:12 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Can you move the slider by hand to engage 2nd gear? There should be some resistance from the dogs and you might have to spin the gears to get it to fully engage but it should go. Try the other gears as well ... does 2nd take more effort ??

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009116
06/13/11 02:16 PM
06/13/11 02:16 PM
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New York
EF8aar Offline OP
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I really hate to ask this question, but which one is second gear? I think I was able to move all.

Thank you

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009117
06/13/11 02:19 PM
06/13/11 02:19 PM
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1st is at the rear , 4th is at the front .

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009118
06/13/11 02:25 PM
06/13/11 02:25 PM
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in the past when i had 4 speeds and i had problems with second gear i found the brass synchro split. the early (70 and earlier?) synchros were machined differently from later synchros. the later synchros were different and were stronger and didnt break near as often as early style synchros. seems i remember you change the synchro and its holder as an assembly. brewer probably sells a kit to do this conversion. the steel slider teeth and the gear teeth look preety good in the pictures, not a lot of wear for a gear box that always got beat on back in the day.

Re: manual trans question [Re: eds dart] #1009119
06/13/11 03:02 PM
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Quote:

in the past when i had 4 speeds and i had problems with second gear i found the brass synchro split. the early (70 and earlier?) synchros were machined differently from later synchros. the later synchros were different and were stronger and didnt break near as often as early style synchros. seems i remember you change the synchro and its holder as an assembly. brewer probably sells a kit to do this conversion. the steel slider teeth and the gear teeth look preety good in the pictures, not a lot of wear for a gear box that always got beat on back in the day.




I scoop up cheap OD 4 speeds for this reason, take the syncro assemblies out and just buy a new 3/4 hub from one of the suppliers ...

Re: manual trans question [Re: JohnRR] #1009120
06/13/11 03:37 PM
06/13/11 03:37 PM
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Ohio
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The trans in question has the 70 and newer style syncro assemblies. The rings will still wear even if they haven't been abused. Just might be time for a new set.
Dan


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PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259
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