Ok, i understand Andy, but i hearing something new with annulars is on the horizon. There is a new polymer annular booster for Dominator that is showing very promising results over the old annular boosters and it sounds like maybe something coming for the 4150 as well. Lets hope its true, but anyway i am really thinking about new annular 4150 bodies for my Hemi deal. Maybe i can use these down leg 850 bodies on my street/strip 511 tunnel ram deal in place of the 650 bodies i have been using with great results.