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Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Charger69RT8] #3227953
04/18/24 07:40 PM
04/18/24 07:40 PM
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Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline
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Originally Posted by Charger69RT8
I love this place. Thanks Tom for providing it and all the people that take their time to share knowledge and experience.

DaveRS23- Thank you for those links. That provided paths for further research. Appreciated!

Topside-Totally on the same side as you on the TQ's. As well as the right foot reality. Thanks for your input!

tboomer- Real end user experience is priceless. Thank you!

Zippy- As noted above about real world user experience. Thank you!

moparx- I'll just say some of us were not wise enough to gather TQ supplies while they were still available. Would love to run one. I know them. But much easier solutions are available for a mutt like this pickup is. And of course part of why the Demon caught my interest. Very similar, and maybe some advantages. Need to study more.

volaredon-Will send you a pm shortly

Neil-I've searched multiple times for spread bore. The only new or rebuilt stock that comes from the major suppliers is Q-jets. Nothing for Holley leading me to think the one you speak of is not currently in production. In agreement with you on the older AVS's & AFB's but they suffer they same availability issues as the TQ's as you note.

Sniper- Thanks again for your further input and like those above the real world experience is invaluable. I get your point on the SD, but its worth a look and compare.

TJP- Sending you a PM as well.

Thanks again all for your time and responses. So much better than internet reviews and sales pitches.

I returned your PM




Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: volaredon] #3227954
04/18/24 07:47 PM
04/18/24 07:47 PM
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Florida
BDW Offline
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Last edited by BDW; 04/18/24 07:48 PM.
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: DaveRS23] #3227957
04/18/24 08:10 PM
04/18/24 08:10 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Wrong as usual there sniper troll.

And the claim is that they work better OOTB than most any of their competitors. Not that they are 'perfect' or that they would never need any tuning. There are valid reasons why the Street Demon is a better choice than many of their very dated competitors. But you don't seem to know about any of that.

The Street Demon just happens to perfectly fit the OP's preferences. That is the ONLY reason that I bring them up. I even narrowed their preferred application substantially. They are not the end all, be all of carburetors. But they do fit the O.PO.'s preferences better than any other carb that I know of. I most certainly would NEVER recommend the CarterBrocks to anyone hoping to 'bolt on and go'. All you have to do is to look at their tune chart for the rods and mains and most guys would run the other way. Then there's the lack of ability to tune the transitions without a drill and bits. They are not a bad carb in and of themselves, it's just that there are better choices for applications like the O.P. But, if you haven't ran them on different combos to see how they work, it's understandable that you wouldn't know that.

If you know of a better fit for the O.P., then by all means, bring it up. Otherwise, you are just being yourself................as usual.

And by the way, the Street Demons new are about the same price as the CarterBrocks that you mention. And used are about the same price too. Depending on condition. So, who's stretching hard now?



all one has to do is look at the title below your name to get your number.

Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Sniper] #3227975
04/18/24 10:03 PM
04/18/24 10:03 PM
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Benton, IL.
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So, no recommendation that fits with the O.P.'s needs, but plenty of attempts at insults.

Typical.


Master, again and still
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: DaveRS23] #3227982
04/18/24 10:29 PM
04/18/24 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,523
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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Eagle, Idaho
Clean used Edelbrocks and Carters Competition Series AFBs can be found pretty easily for cheap, and the average dude can set them up to make them work really good for almost anything less than an all out drag car. I see local people selling like new carburetors of all makes because they got flustered when it didn't work right so they cave and buy an EFI setup meaning someone else gets a good deal on a low mile carburetor that just needs some attention.

Set the float drops in both directions (important), and then put the jetting back to stock if it has been altered and adjust from there. Most gripes from these carburetors come from dirt getting in them, stalling when turning or hard stopping (all float setting related), and heat soak. Run a filter in front of and after the fuel pump. Set the float drop measurements to perfect even if it takes some time, and the heat soak thing you have to run a good base insulator gasket, and possibly look at your fuel line routing and maybe some rubber insulation over the metal line at worst. I've never had to do that on any of mine, but some have had to. It's ok you just do what is needed for your situation.

The best thing about a new carburetor is you get a warranty if needed, and the fact that nobody has monkeyed with it. The bad thing is none of them come really ready to use right out of the box, and it's worth reading the instructions and checking things over first. They are build by people in a hurry so things may be off enough to warrant fixing/adjusting before use. I'm familiar with the AFB type carbs enough to know that the floats on those need to be verified as they are often wrong. Not a deal breaker you just know it needs checked before you use them.

Last edited by Neil; 04/18/24 10:29 PM.
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Neil] #3228047
04/19/24 11:15 AM
04/19/24 11:15 AM
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Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
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I would recommend the 650 AVS 2, no carb is ideal OOTB. The AVS2 would probably need a rod change at most. If someone is unwilling to loosen two screws and change the rods or read the chart. maybe a carb is not for them. I just don’t think the OP is going to freak out over slight tuning of the carb. If you can install the carb, you can tune it.


best of 11.39 at 117 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: DaveRS23] #3228093
04/19/24 01:35 PM
04/19/24 01:35 PM
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
So, no recommendation that fits with the O.P.'s needs, but plenty of attempts at insults.

Typical.


The reason you earned your title is that I already, in my first post in this thread, recommended the 1406.

Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Sniper] #3228147
04/19/24 07:32 PM
04/19/24 07:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
Charger69RT8 Offline OP
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Thanks for the further input. I was really enjoying the debate between DaveRS23 & Sniper with both of you making valid points worth considering. Then you guys went to the banter and tarnished it a bit. frown But seriously, thank you both for your input just the same. It was educational for me and I am sure will be for others as well.

BDW, thank you for the link. That is a deal. If I can make up my mind before it is gone.

Neal & FurryStump- You are both right. I'm not afraid of a little tuning and expect any choice will need dialed in. Jets, metering rods, etc, for the TQ's are just not readily available anymore is why I'm looking away from the beloved TQ. And I am currently in one of those spots where my time is more valuable to me than even the price of a new carb. At least in the $500 & down range of the group I opened with. The AVS2 with the annular boosters as an evolution interested me and why I am considering them. However, being a fan of the TQ as Dave rightfully pointed out, the SD is very tempting to try. And has been testified to by multiples, the 1406 is a solid piece too. It's good to have choices.

I just want the OOB to start, run, and be drivable. I tried tuning this thing with that shot TQ on it and gave up. Once I get a carb on it that while not idle at 700 rpm with the primaries fully closed, (the throttle shaft leak is massive) I'll have a better chance at getting this little engine dialed in. Right now the idle is 700 to 1300 depending on how the primary shaft rotates back on let off.


2012 Challenger SRT
2012 Charger SXT AWD
69 Charger R/T
78 Chrysler New Yorker 440CI
89 Dodge Daytona ES 2.5L Turbo
99 Ram 2500 4X4 5.9L6
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Charger69RT8] #3228148
04/19/24 07:46 PM
04/19/24 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,759
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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Well, one can expect a fevered argument on carbs, oil, and tires, as I alluded to earlier.
One buddy of mine with a healthy Mopar crate 360 absolutely swears by his Street Demon, with the passion one sees from Tesla advocates.
The car I'm currently building has a 340 with a 237/240 @ .050 & .474 lift cam and headers, and the PO dropped an OOTB Eddy 1406 on it.
Runs crisply & cleanly, plugs look very good from street driving.
I'm swapping it out for my Holley 750 as part of the efforts to speed the car up for bracket racing, but I'm gonna hang onto it for awhile.

Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Sniper] #3228154
04/19/24 08:22 PM
04/19/24 08:22 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
So, no recommendation that fits with the O.P.'s needs, but plenty of attempts at insults.

Typical.


The reason you earned your title is that I already, in my first post in this thread, recommended the 1406.



You twist more than a worm in hot ashes there, sniper troll.

"all one has to do is look at the title below your name to get your number."

That post is the one I responded to when I said; "So, no recommendation that fits with the O.P.'s needs, but plenty of attempts at insults.

Typical."
Not the one you reference in an attempt to distract from your obvious carburetor ignorance and your repeated trolling.

Your 1608 design carb was replaced in production OVER 50 YEARS AGO by the ThermoQuad. And for good reason. The ThermoQuads are a superior and more modern design. The new Street Demons take that original design to the next level by adding even more design features and correcting some of the original's flaws. But again, you wouldn't know about that. You can't be bothered with facts, you are too busy sidetracking another thread with your trolling while ignoring the O.P.'s clearly stated preferences.

The old CarterBrocks are good carbs. And the 1st Gen Hemis are good engines. too. But there are simply better, modern alternatives of each available today.

Your lack of experience betrays you on this subject and reduces you to attempting insults to cover that lack of experience.


Master, again and still
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Charger69RT8] #3228167
04/19/24 09:22 PM
04/19/24 09:22 PM
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Posts: 15,338
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by Charger69RT8
I tried tuning this thing with that shot TQ on it and gave up. Once I get a carb on it that while not idle at 700 rpm with the primaries fully closed, (the throttle shaft leak is massive) I'll have a better chance at getting this little engine dialed in. Right now the idle is 700 to 1300 depending on how the primary shaft rotates back on let off.


HMMM, referring to the above bolded portion of your comment, Have you
1. Disconnected the throttle cable/ linkages and tested with your hand? try opening and gently letting it close as well as letting it SNAP shut.
2. Verified that the throttle arm is completely returning against the idle stop
3. Check and make sure your choke fast idle cam is not on its first step (or close to it) and completely disengaged.
4. Disconnected the vacuum advance and plug the carb port wink
5. Checked the timing to make sure it is returning to its initial setting and not "floating" down.

I would do all 5 steps one at a time without reverting. IE: do step 1, then 2, then 3, 4 & 5
I would hate to see you spend $$ on a carb to find the problem was elsewhere wink
Keep us posted wink

Last edited by TJP; 04/19/24 09:26 PM.
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: DaveRS23] #3228208
04/20/24 06:34 AM
04/20/24 06:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,913
United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Offline
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Dave and Sniper...Thank you both for ruining a good thread. Don't let it happen again. Take your crap elsewhere.. tsk


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: tboomer] #3228221
04/20/24 08:58 AM
04/20/24 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,055
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes
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Stop the initial trolling and the corresponding responses will stop too. I am surprised that the trolling outside of the unmoderated forum is allowed anyway.


Master, again and still
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Neil] #3228225
04/20/24 09:39 AM
04/20/24 09:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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CT
Originally Posted by Neil
Clean used Edelbrocks and Carters Competition Series AFBs can be found pretty easily for cheap, and the average dude can set them up to make them work really good for almost anything less than an all out drag car. I see local people selling like new carburetors of all makes because they got flustered when it didn't work right so they cave and buy an EFI setup meaning someone else gets a good deal on a low mile carburetor that just needs some attention.

Set the float drops in both directions (important), and then put the jetting back to stock if it has been altered and adjust from there. Most gripes from these carburetors come from dirt getting in them, stalling when turning or hard stopping (all float setting related), and heat soak. Run a filter in front of and after the fuel pump. Set the float drop measurements to perfect even if it takes some time, and the heat soak thing you have to run a good base insulator gasket, and possibly look at your fuel line routing and maybe some rubber insulation over the metal line at worst. I've never had to do that on any of mine, but some have had to. It's ok you just do what is needed for your situation.

The best thing about a new carburetor is you get a warranty if needed, and the fact that nobody has monkeyed with it. The bad thing is none of them come really ready to use right out of the box, and it's worth reading the instructions and checking things over first. They are build by people in a hurry so things may be off enough to warrant fixing/adjusting before use. I'm familiar with the AFB type carbs enough to know that the floats on those need to be verified as they are often wrong. Not a deal breaker you just know it needs checked before you use them.


This - if you are handy and can rebuild one and understand how carbs work there are cheap used afb/avs carbs all over the place.. I honestly can not believe the price of new carbs now.

The best investment you can make is a wideband o2 meter. You can solve any carb problem if you know whats actually going on with the AFR. And you can afford one easily with the leftover money you save buying someone’s $100 600 AFB.

I know this doesn’t answer your question necessarily, but that is what I would do. Good luck!

Last edited by GTX MATT; 04/20/24 09:41 AM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: TJP] #3228274
04/20/24 01:28 PM
04/20/24 01:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
Charger69RT8 Offline OP
enthusiast
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Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
TJP, Yes, I did all that you listed. I guess you missed the part where I noted wiggling the primary throttle shaft I can get a "loud" whistle. I've ran my vehicles a long time even back with carb'd engines so I've seen a few worn primary shafts. This one is the worst I've ever seen by a lot. This prompted me to go measure it. Shaft play measured at the body is .035". This TQ I have needs significant repair. Thus for all the reasons I've stated, I am not looking to do right now. Its not because I can't. Don't get me wrong I appreciate your points, and they are valid. They just don't fit me at this time.


2012 Challenger SRT
2012 Charger SXT AWD
69 Charger R/T
78 Chrysler New Yorker 440CI
89 Dodge Daytona ES 2.5L Turbo
99 Ram 2500 4X4 5.9L6
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: GTX MATT] #3228275
04/20/24 01:32 PM
04/20/24 01:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,383
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Posts: 19,383
north of coder
if i didn't have such a supply [collection ? biggrin] of T-quads and their supporting parts, i would probably lean toward the carterbrocks, or a street demon type.
beer

Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: GTX MATT] #3228277
04/20/24 01:41 PM
04/20/24 01:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
Charger69RT8 Offline OP
enthusiast
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Bennett, Colorado
GTX MATT, Yeah I get it, good points, and I agree. Also, would love to get myself set up with wide band tuning ability and maybe will if / when I get the time. Right now I need to keep it simple and drivable so I can use it and enjoy it. Long term plan is either put the full 440 drivetrain from radiator back out of a D150 I have, or go 3rd gen hemi. But nether of those are likely to happen for several years yet. And so far, the 318 seems to be solid, so I may just leave it as is.


2012 Challenger SRT
2012 Charger SXT AWD
69 Charger R/T
78 Chrysler New Yorker 440CI
89 Dodge Daytona ES 2.5L Turbo
99 Ram 2500 4X4 5.9L6
Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Charger69RT8] #3228610
04/22/24 03:23 PM
04/22/24 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,316
Great White North
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Wheeler Offline
Master
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Great White North
Originally Posted by Charger69RT8
1976 D100, A833OD, 318 w/ headers & Edelbrock performer 2176 intake. Cam is unknown, likely stock. If not, something near stock. Currently has the Carter TQ 9250S that was on it when I acquired the pickup a couple of years ago. And it is shot. Wiggle the primary throttle shaft and get a whistle. Although I'm a fan of the TQ's I've decided staying with one is too much hassle for this application. Going back to a 500 CFM 2 barrel might be best but that would require buying an intake and a carb. At new prices that's approaching EFI throttle body injection like fitech, Holley, etc. So for this reason I am hoping to find a small 4-barrel (600-650 cfm) that fits the intake, is dependable, and pretty much a bolt on and go.

Looking at Eldelbrock Performers 1406, AVS2, Demon 1900 or 1901. Others? Thanks in advance for all tips and recommendations.



IMO, a spreadbore carb (Thermoquad, Quadrajet, Holley 4175) would be the best option for your truck.

Years ago, I had a 1985 Dodge D150 with the 318 2bbl. I removed the stock 2bbl intake & carb and installed a used Edelbrock Performer 2176 intake and rebuilt Rochester Quadrajet from a late 1980s Dodge Truck 360 V8.

It was the best mod I ever did to my truck. More power. Fuel economy and drivability improved. The truck would start instantly - hot, warm, cold - almost like EFI.

I personally prefer the Quadrajet over the Thermoquad for reliability and performance. The Q-Jet was installed on 1985 to 1988 Dodge Trucks & B-Vans with the 360 V8 from the factory.

A rebuilt Thermoquad would be the easiest option for you (if you can find a good one). Scott Smith at Harms Auto rebuilds TQs. https://www.harmsauto.com/

The Holley 4175 spreadbore is a nice carb but is very expensive. https://www.holley.com/products/fue...ors/emissions_replacement/parts/0-80555C

An Edelbrock Performer, Edelbrock AVS2, Holley 4160 or Holley Street Demon carb in the 500-600 cfm range would be a good choice as well (and they are easier to find).

Note: You will need a squarebore to spreadbore adapter to mount these carbs on your Edelbrock Performer 2176 intake.

https://www.edelbrock.com/carb-adap...drajet-thermo-quad-spread-bore-2696.html

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...cers/adapters_and_spacers/parts/300-6QFT

If you want to buy new - check out the 570 cfm Holley Street Avenger or 625 cfm Street Demon. I don't have experience with either carb but these are the two I would look at.

Hope this helps. Good luck.


Re: Carburetor recommendations sought [Re: Wheeler] #3228708
04/23/24 08:19 AM
04/23/24 08:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,055
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes
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Originally Posted by Wheeler
Originally Posted by Charger69RT8
1976 D100, A833OD, 318 w/ headers & Edelbrock performer 2176 intake. Cam is unknown, likely stock. If not, something near stock. Currently has the Carter TQ 9250S that was on it when I acquired the pickup a couple of years ago. And it is shot. Wiggle the primary throttle shaft and get a whistle. Although I'm a fan of the TQ's I've decided staying with one is too much hassle for this application. Going back to a 500 CFM 2 barrel might be best but that would require buying an intake and a carb. At new prices that's approaching EFI throttle body injection like fitech, Holley, etc. So for this reason I am hoping to find a small 4-barrel (600-650 cfm) that fits the intake, is dependable, and pretty much a bolt on and go.

Looking at Eldelbrock Performers 1406, AVS2, Demon 1900 or 1901. Others? Thanks in advance for all tips and recommendations.



IMO, a spreadbore carb (Thermoquad, Quadrajet, Holley 4175) would be the best option for your truck.

Years ago, I had a 1985 Dodge D150 with the 318 2bbl. I removed the stock 2bbl intake & carb and installed a used Edelbrock Performer 2176 intake and rebuilt Rochester Quadrajet from a late 1980s Dodge Truck 360 V8.

It was the best mod I ever did to my truck. More power. Fuel economy and drivability improved. The truck would start instantly - hot, warm, cold - almost like EFI.

I personally prefer the Quadrajet over the Thermoquad for reliability and performance. The Q-Jet was installed on 1985 to 1988 Dodge Trucks & B-Vans with the 360 V8 from the factory.

A rebuilt Thermoquad would be the easiest option for you (if you can find a good one). Scott Smith at Harms Auto rebuilds TQs. https://www.harmsauto.com/

The Holley 4175 spreadbore is a nice carb but is very expensive. https://www.holley.com/products/fue...ors/emissions_replacement/parts/0-80555C

An Edelbrock Performer, Edelbrock AVS2, Holley 4160 or Holley Street Demon carb in the 500-600 cfm range would be a good choice as well (and they are easier to find).

Note: You will need a squarebore to spreadbore adapter to mount these carbs on your Edelbrock Performer 2176 intake.

The Street Demon is designed to fit both intake styles so the OP will not need an adapter. Another cool feature unique to them.

https://www.edelbrock.com/carb-adap...drajet-thermo-quad-spread-bore-2696.html

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...cers/adapters_and_spacers/parts/300-6QFT

If you want to buy new - check out the 570 cfm Holley Street Avenger or 625 cfm Street Demon. I don't have experience with either carb but these are the two I would look at.

Hope this helps. Good luck.



Master, again and still
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